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Old 18-01-2017, 22:35   #31
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Saturn View Post
Minaret have you done any "How To" videos on YouTube for Gelcoat repair or application?



Nope, but loads of other people have!
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Old 18-01-2017, 22:53   #32
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
OK I'm interested. I'm probably looking at a deck job at some point in the not too distant future and you're making DIY gelcoat sound like a feasible option given my existing set of skills.

So I'll want non-skid on a significant amount of surface...deck, coach roof, sections of cockpit. Why put nonskid on top of a paint base layer and not new gelcoat?


Because it's much easier to get good results reliably. Issues include: There is no flattening agent for gel coat non skid. You cannot use PVA for skid because it is usually bright green or purple and will sometimes stain the particles. Therefore you must use surface seal (wax) to provide a surface cure, and that surface cure must be perfect, hard as nails. This means you must also catalyze pretty hot. Therefore, doing gelcoat nonskid is much more technically demanding than paint; for instance I would never roll gel skid. Ambient conditions become much more important. Odds of getting a result with high amounts of gloss in some areas and not so much in others is good if done outdoors. The end result, however, can be spectacular if all goes well. It wears the hardest of all skids, by far.





Perhaps related, I have molded in nonskid, which I detest. The plan was to sand it off entirely.



I have talked many clients into this one, as I too detest it. Too difficult and time consuming to repair, not comfortable to lay on. Grind that crap off and Griptex it! JMHO.




As an aside, how are the 3m microfine pads for wet sanding to restore gelcoat, vs. compounding with a machine? Looks like a better result and honestly looks like less work than a buffer, particularly given fittings, edges, etc.


Those things are expensive but awesome, I use them a lot. Usually I finish with these in Microfine and Ultra fine. Ultra fine is 800-1000, Micro fine is 1200-1500.

Many people start wet sanding fresh gel @ 400 grit wet or thereabouts. Once you get a few years under your belt you realize starting with finer grits is much faster, polishing out 400 scratches is harder than you think.


I generally start with 800 wet for small hand work, 800 dry on a DA for larger surfaces. I dry guide coat before starting and between grits. Once I have an 800 grit profile with all peel removed, I go to the aforementioned sponges.

The trick to these is not to use too much water. The grit comes off the sponge pretty quick and creates a slurry on the work surface which is what is doing most of the work. If you use too much water you will just wash this expensive slurry away before it has done its job. Can't recommend dry guide coat enough, 1000 grit scratches really jump out to the naked eye with this.

I always polish with 3M gelcoat polishing compound followed by finesse it followed by perfect it or Farecla glaze. The entire Farecla line is a great second option.


Always polish after wet sanding. I polish even after 2000 grit wet for a really nice finish with maximum DOI. When you get done, hold a ruler up to your work surface at right angles. When you get good enough to clearly read the 12" mark, you are there!
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Old 18-01-2017, 22:57   #33
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I had to fly back here to Ca. to attend my Father in law's funeral. We're up in Eureka and it's a torrential downpour here. I can't imagine painting in this weather.


To be fair, we only do prep work when it's like this. Too humid even if you can keep it dry in the tent....
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:01   #34
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

If you decide to redo gel on your decks get one of these tools as it will mostly be polishing around fittings, waterways, corners, etc. It will pay for itself in short order. Awesome tool.



https://www.amazon.com/Milwaukee-243...ander+polisher
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:05   #35
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

And buy one of these. It's Hand Glaze, for polishing all those three way inside corners and other spots where no machine no matter how small can reach. It works, just put some on a rag and rub the hell out of it! Also great to have aboard for polishing out stains/scratches without breaking out a tool, though if you have the M12 you won't hesitate to do that!



https://www.amazon.com/3M-05990-Hand...=3m+hand+glaze
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:09   #36
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Here's our pall cpa's thread on his refit, wherein he brushed gel on the smooth bits of the deck and house and polished it out.


http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...7-a-63816.html
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:13   #37
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

For the click inhibited, before:
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Old 18-01-2017, 23:14   #38
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

And after:
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Old 19-01-2017, 10:03   #39
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
I came across this site... Re-Gelcoating your boat
Perhaps minaret can verify the content. It gives tip sizes and a step by step, including mixture of the final coat.
Yup, that's a pretty good description.

For the final coat, I use "Air Dry" (wax additive), and then spray with PVA, immediately after gelling.

Kind of a belt and suspenders approach to assure gelcoat cure.

I also prefer to remove the PVA in 24 hours, then apply a coat of Carnauba, and wait another 24 hours before sanding and then the polishing / waxing process.

I prefer uniform pattern gelcoat, as it tends to be cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing (to my eye). To do this I use a stiff stainless brush to key the surface, vacuum, and then acetone wipe. One has to keep the thickness down to avoid filling the valleys. Fortunately, gelcoat doesn't flow like paint, so it tends not to pool in the lows like paint, maintaining the aggressiveness of the gelcoat fairly good. The orange peel left in the surface, will minimize the gloss on the non-skid, and yet is can be sanded and polished to a brilliant smooth shine in the cockpit.

When maintaining the original uniform pattern non-skid isn't possible (due to repairs) if it is not too large an area, I will make a negative mold of the pattern from good non-skid, and apply it to the repair areas, before shooting the gelcoat all over.

If the area is too large to repair the uniform pattern non-skid, then my next favourite choice is gelcoat with cabosil, applied with a roller to masked areas. (This takes a lot of practice to produce a consistent texture and discipline to not over-work it.)

Here's my personal boat this I did last winter.

Before...

No photos loaded but there were shady patches all over the decks where the gelcoat had worn too thin in the nonskid valleys. I also made several FRP repairs to smooth surfaces.

During...



After...



Fortunately, I didn't have any large nonskid areas to repair, but I did have 4 x 4" diameter (defunct) instrument holes to fill in the port companionway bulkhead (so now we have the best seat in the house back) and we changed the 2 opening, one small fixed, and one large (way too light at 1/8" plexi) ports down each cabin side, to 5 x Beckson opening ports. (Would have preferred bronze or stainless, but at 10 x the cost, couldn't justify it.)

Not too shabby looking for a 40th birthday makeover.
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Old 22-01-2017, 17:27   #40
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

I have been following this thread with interest.
We have a Paceship 23 we purchased a year and a half ago. It had been left uncovered in Northern NY State for about eight years.
I have been replacing sections of the deck that have core damage.
Hope to finish that part this Spring.
Have been using WEST epoxy and Baltec core. The deck has a lot of nonskid area.
My original pan is to paint the deck and use Kiwi on the nonskid.
The boat is located about 400ft from our house at our barn. The power is supplied by a generator when I need electric.
I like the gel coat idea but am concerned about equipment needed and my working conditions.
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Old 23-01-2017, 05:46   #41
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcc101 View Post
I have been following this thread with interest.
We have a Paceship 23 we purchased a year and a half ago. It had been left uncovered in Northern NY State for about eight years.
I have been replacing sections of the deck that have core damage.
Hope to finish that part this Spring.
Have been using WEST epoxy and Baltec core. The deck has a lot of nonskid area.
My original pan is to paint the deck and use Kiwi on the nonskid.
The boat is located about 400ft from our house at our barn. The power is supplied by a generator when I need electric.
I like the gel coat idea but am concerned about equipment needed and my working conditions.
Don't try putting gelcoat over epoxy. The epoxy manufacturer may say it's
possible. Lots of things are "possible" but really shouldn't be done because there are better solutions. In practice, if one wishes to use gelcoat, start with polyester resin instead of epoxy.
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Old 23-01-2017, 06:38   #42
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Don't try putting gelcoat over epoxy. The epoxy manufacturer may say it's
possible. Lots of things are "possible" but really shouldn't be done because there are better solutions. In practice, if one wishes to use gelcoat, start with polyester resin instead of epoxy.



Very much agreed!
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Old 23-01-2017, 06:40   #43
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by minaret View Post
Basically good advice there, a few things I would qualify or not fully agree with, but the only real problem I had with it was the suggestion to use Patch-Aid. I hate that stuff!

Will find time for a more thorough discourse soon, it's been dumping a biblical downpour here and I'm painting boats. Very busy, the season has begun!
Looking forward to it. I have zillion questions!
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Old 23-01-2017, 06:43   #44
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Looking forward to it. I have zillion questions!


Ask 'em! Don't have to put the kids on the bus for another 30 min.
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Old 23-01-2017, 06:50   #45
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Re: Faded, Chalky and Thin Gelcoat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ramblinrod View Post
Yup, that's a pretty good description.

For the final coat, I use "Air Dry" (wax additive), and then spray with PVA, immediately after gelling.

Kind of a belt and suspenders approach to assure gelcoat cure.

I also prefer to remove the PVA in 24 hours, then apply a coat of Carnauba, and wait another 24 hours before sanding and then the polishing / waxing process.

I prefer uniform pattern gelcoat, as it tends to be cleaner and more aesthetically pleasing (to my eye). To do this I use a stiff stainless brush to key the surface, vacuum, and then acetone wipe. One has to keep the thickness down to avoid filling the valleys. Fortunately, gelcoat doesn't flow like paint, so it tends not to pool in the lows like paint, maintaining the aggressiveness of the gelcoat fairly good. The orange peel left in the surface, will minimize the gloss on the non-skid, and yet is can be sanded and polished to a brilliant smooth shine in the cockpit.

When maintaining the original uniform pattern non-skid isn't possible (due to repairs) if it is not too large an area, I will make a negative mold of the pattern from good non-skid, and apply it to the repair areas, before shooting the gelcoat all over.

If the area is too large to repair the uniform pattern non-skid, then my next favourite choice is gelcoat with cabosil, applied with a roller to masked areas. (This takes a lot of practice to produce a consistent texture and discipline to not over-work it.)

Here's my personal boat this I did last winter.

Before...

No photos loaded but there were shady patches all over the decks where the gelcoat had worn too thin in the nonskid valleys. I also made several FRP repairs to smooth surfaces.

During...



After...



Fortunately, I didn't have any large nonskid areas to repair, but I did have 4 x 4" diameter (defunct) instrument holes to fill in the port companionway bulkhead (so now we have the best seat in the house back) and we changed the 2 opening, one small fixed, and one large (way too light at 1/8" plexi) ports down each cabin side, to 5 x Beckson opening ports. (Would have preferred bronze or stainless, but at 10 x the cost, couldn't justify it.)

Not too shabby looking for a 40th birthday makeover.


I find when I try to spray PVA over gelcoat with wax in the final coat, if a sufficient amount of wax has been used (twice the amount mentioned on the can), the PVA simply beads up on the wax and runs heavily instead of forming a film. One or the other for me, never both.

Gel nonskid with cabosil is pretty easy to do, and looks OK, but it's generally way too aggressive for my tastes. A real skin remover.

Molded skid just doesn't add up for me, either. I've done hundreds of repairs on it, got my method down pat. But it just takes so much longer than Griptex skid to do good repairs.

Don't even get me started on Kiwigrip. Hard to clean, impossible to make yacht quality repairs that are 100% invisible, and I really don't like the "foot feel".
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