Ever used 3 way connectors?

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by basssears

Yep, I started this and do somewhat regret it... I thought I was getting to know most of the flame bait topics but this one snuck by me

Not sure if you have heard yet but a lot of former members here and some that are still here have joined Sailnet. They do not tolerate the single minded types.

[basssears]

Good to know... I'm pretty thick skinned and like the Daily Cruiser email in my in box in the morning because I have a chance to see things I might be able to help with, as opposed to just coming on when I have a flame war to start (mono vs cat anyone?)

... but I could learn to remember to scan SailNet every once in a while.

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Not sure if you have heard yet but a lot of former members here and some that are still here have joined Sailnet. They do not tolerate the single minded types.

[amytom]

Deleted my own post to not offend anyone.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by amytom

Deleted my own post to not offend anyone.

And I once had a fresh outta school mech engineer bend the rule like a banana in my prized and very expensive combination square whilst trying to reassemble it, much to my annoyance. Experience is the greatest teacher. Unfortunately some people have 20 years experience and others have 20 x 1 years experience.

[Paul Elliott]

Folks, there are plenty of other forums and they all have their strong and weak points. I participate in several of them myself. But they all suffer when we attack one another. Some, like Sailing Anarchy, consider that an art form, but in spite of this you will find value. Sailnet has it's own flavor, and it's usually good. But this is the place I go first when I want diverse opinions -- some expert, and others just learning.

This discussion started out well enough, then sank to some pretty unpleasant name-calling. Can we please keep it civil? There are times to solder, and times to crimp, and ways to do each properly (and improperly). If you have a point to make please do it respectfully.

[socaldmax]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

Folks, there are plenty of other forums and they all have their strong and weak points. I participate in several of them myself. But they all suffer when we attack one another. Some, like Sailing Anarchy, consider that an art form, but in spite of this you will find value. Sailnet has it's own flavor, and it's usually good. But this is the place I go first when I want diverse opinions -- some expert, and others just learning.

This discussion started out well enough, then sank to some pretty unpleasant name-calling. Can we please keep it civil? There are times to solder, and times to crimp, and ways to do each properly (and improperly). If you have a point to make please do it respectfully.

Amen!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by SailRedemption

Just ordered the 3 and 5 port ones off Amazon.. Probably don't need all 90 of them but what the heck it was pretty cheap and I need to join some 120v wires to one feed and also 12v. I'll pop one open and take pictures of the insides when I get them in. I'll post them up.

See more @ redemptiverepair.com

Some in depth testing here you might find interesting...
https://youtu.be/UsJffbx_l7E
I have a couple of bags of them, very useful onboard

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

For others who are open to learning, here is an image of the cross-section of both over and under-crimped cable lugs. Proper crimping forges the individual conductors and terminal into a solid mass which cannot absorb solder. Heat shrink tubing is then used to seal the connector to the insulator.

I have heard this quoted many times but I have yet to see it in practice. I have crimped cables as big as about 1" diameter right down to 26AWG, tens of thousands of them. Using a wide variety of tooling from high end super expensive calibrated hydraulic bench crimpers to the simple (but professional) hand tools. I have run a calibration service for tooling. I have cut and inspected quite a few crimp connectors but I have yet to see "the solid mass" as so often quoted.

FWIW, have a decent inspection of these cut crimps. By that I mean with a 200x magnification stereo lab microscope (or better). I have done this a few times in the past when the opportunity has presented itself. Every time, it was possible to see voids - not many I agree but voids nevertheless between some of the strands.

It is very easy to quote or repeat the sales pitch from the connector / tooling manufacturers but it is way more instructive to check out their claims for yourself. Try it sometime!

It is the old story, don't believe what you hear or read and only believe half of what you see for yourself.

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Easy. I'm a professional boat builder--you are a hack.

I am sure you are a very good boat builder and I have no reason to doubt your boat building abilities but why would you apparently suggest that the electrical / electronic professional folk who post here know less about crimping / soldering than a boat builder. The whole electrical trade is predicated around the joining of wires and thus soldering / crimping and such like are in their DNA.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I guess I'm doomed! Wait...I've been soldering on boats 36 years now

I think I already withdrew the comment a few pages ago!

I clearly got in over my head here. Like others, I had forgotten that this is one of those inflammatory topics.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by packeteer

............ you can always learn something even if the writer has a different option

If the writer is wrong, there's a danger that you will believe him and learn something wrong.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

............. I should also add we have a boat builder calling an electrical engineer a hack in reference to an electrical discussion. Kind of ironic, aint it?

I was an electronic technician. My boss used to say that engineers dream up things, technicians make them work.

What makes crimp vs. solder threads so amusing is that the "authorities" with their vast research and testing, have determined that crimping is the best way to terminate wire and cable ends, yet some people believe soldering is better in spite of this. It's almost like a religion.

Someone posted that they "don't need a pinheaded ABYC electrician telling them how to terminate wires". How's that for logic?

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind but it's fun to watch them try.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by rwidman

I was an electronic technician. My boss used to say that engineers dream up things, technicians make them work.

What makes crimp vs. solder threads so amusing is that the "authorities" with their vast research and testing, have determined that crimping is the best way to terminate wire and cable ends, yet some people believe soldering is better in spite of this. It's almost like a religion.

Someone posted that they "don't need a pinheaded ABYC electrician telling them how to terminate wires". How's that for logic?

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind but it's fun to watch them try.

You need to learn comprehension my friend.

I have never stated that solder is "better" than crimping. Do feel free to quote so if I'm mistaken. Excepting for the "pros" I have given to crimping, I have stated...

Soldered connections have their place.
"cold fused" crimping is baloney.
"gas tight" crimp connections are a myth.

Prove me wrong.

[amytom]

But solder done right is better than crimp. Crimp is recommended because anyone can buy a ratchet crimp tool and create passable work. Soldering is a skill that has to be learned.

Look at it this way:

A crimp is purely a mechanical connection. A proper solder jointed effectively welds the two prices together and proper heat sink and strain relief makes flexing and vibration a non-issue.

If you have the time and skill set then solder. If you're in a hurry and hanging upside down through a hatch then crimp away.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by four winds

Can you briefly describe the type of test or methodology?

The samples were mounted in a vertical spindle and rotated such that small flexation was cause each time around. This was not forced on the splice but simple transmitted to a 6" length of wire. I was working with 22 ga to 14 ga, since it is the transition that interests me.

The result was that the wires always failed at the end of the shrink wrap. Pretty obvious. Without the shrink wrap, results varied, but there was really no statistically significant difference between solder and crimp... and I'm a crimping guy most of the time.

Interestingly, the wire nut did better than solder or crimp in the absence of heat shrink. A lot better. Not that I am suggesting this as a good practice, just sorting facts.

---

I'm sure different vibration modes will give slightly different answers, but the bottom line is that whether or not you heat shrink is the important variable re. fatigue. I'm running corrosion tests--again, there are too many variables, and I expect differences to be subtle.

The big difference is that crimped connections stay together when overheated, whereas solder connections depend on specific wrapping methods which sometimes make for bulky splices. Not sure what I think about that. Code being what it is, the answer is simple most of the time.

But what about very small wires?

[four winds]

Thanks, thinwater. But I wanted to guess before you revealed the results.

Now no one will believe my choices were, the wire nut and at the end of the shrink wrap. Should have been brave enough to post it.