Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-08-2013, 12:12   #1
Registered User
 
capttman's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Satellite Beach Florida
Boat: Bruce Roberts 434
Posts: 716
Send a message via Skype™ to capttman
Epoxy vs Polyester or Vinylester Resin

Why are so many trying to repair fiberglass hulls with epoxy resins rather than the polyester or vinyl-ester resins your boats were built with???
__________________
Capttman

"When the bow be in the trees we'll be running out of seas"
capttman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:15   #2
Registered User
 
colemj's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,108
Images: 12
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Some of it is because epoxy has been marketed well as superior for repair work and some of it is because there are legitimate repairs and projects were epoxy is the better choice.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:18   #3
Registered User
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicholasville, Kentucky
Boat: 15 foot Canoe
Posts: 14,191
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

The reason I choose epoxy is that I'm not allergic to it and the fibers don't make me itch as much when grinding and fairing. I believe epoxy to be more water resistant and provide better adhesion. Afterall, barrier coats are a form of epoxy.

My assumptions might be all wrong but that's the reason I use it.

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:20   #4
Registered User
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,042
Images: 5
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Epoxy will make a chemical bond with cured polyester resin, where polyester will not bond as well with itself, once it is cured. On the other hand, once you put epoxy resin on polyester, polyester will not adhere well to the epoxy.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:26   #5
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
Images: 4
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

For me it's mostly that it is well marketed - and by that I don't mean being sold as "better", but because the stuff from West Marine comes in tins that have can have an easy dispenser fitted on the top that also does the measuring - plus various grades of fillers.........life all made simple for me :-) .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:32   #6
Registered User
 
salticrak's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: palmwoods qld australia
Boat: wharram tiki 26
Posts: 739
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by captain58sailin View Post
Epoxy will make a chemical bond with cured polyester resin, where polyester will not bond as well with itself, once it is cured. On the other hand, once you put epoxy resin on polyester, polyester will not adhere well to the epoxy.
wot he said.
salticrak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 12:37   #7
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

The yards with real expertise will tell you pretty much the same. For large areas you should work in like type materials to prevent creating new stress point (at some point unless you are an engineer..what determine large area is pretty subjective).

You don't need incredible bonding if it creates a stress point that will fail before the perfect epoxy bond strength anyhow.

Small repairs that would benefit from the extra adhesion and not suffer a stress point....or for structural areas...then yes epoxy benefits from those adhesive properties.

A lot of backyard guys with business cards will debate this all day...let'em...I listen to the guys who cut out the sides of mega yachts and put them back for advice.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:00   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alameda, CA
Boat: C&C Newport 41
Posts: 586
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

where does your question come from?

do you have an objection?

is there some other element to your post?

personally, i use epoxy when the surface is not as pristine as i might otherwise like it, for structural (tabbing in bulkheads / chain plates beds) items and if i cant tell what the original resin was because epoxy just bonds with everything and is bullet proof.

if i am laying up multiple layers of new cloth on a well prepared surface, i use laminating resin mostly because it is a lot cheaper.

-steve
ssanzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:05   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Boat: 40' Northstar 80/20
Posts: 122
Images: 2
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by capttman View Post
Why are so many trying to repair fiberglass hulls with epoxy resins rather than the polyester or vinyl-ester resins your boats were built with???
People seem to think epoxy is a magical cure-all. "I don't have to pay to have it fixed if I cram enough epoxy in the hole!" I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but I've seen a lot of boats where people expected it to be the solution. ...like this boat:

__________________
"They'll get out of the way. I learned that drivin' the Saratoga."
AbaftAndBaffled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:08   #10
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbaftAndBaffled View Post
People seem to think epoxy is a magical cure-all. "I don't have to pay to have it fixed if I cram enough epoxy in the hole!" I'm sure that's not the case for everyone, but I've seen a lot of boats where people expected it to be the solution. ...like this boat:
Why in this case wouldn't a slightly thickened epoxy be the right solution?

Small blisters or chips...seems what most Dr's order....

Unless the crayon or pencil marking is outlining a serious delam/hydrolysis issue.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:14   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Boat: 40' Northstar 80/20
Posts: 122
Images: 2
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Why in this case wouldn't a slightly thickened epoxy be the right solution?

Small blisters or chips...seems what most Dr's order....

Unless the crayon or pencil marking is outlining a serious delam/hydrolysis issue.
As you can see from the radiating damage, it wasn't the solution.

The holes are spots that someone just filled with epoxy. I couldn't tell you what created the holes, it was delivered to us this way. The cracks all radiate out from those holes. I suspect that moisture was trapped inside the hull when someone attempted this epoxy repair, so all they managed to do was seal water inside. Once winter came around, the water freezes and expands, forces voids in the glass and allows more water to get in. Apparently the damage wasn't this visible for a while, and when we ground open the bottom there was even more damage than you could see through the gelcoat.

The right solution is to grind out the damaged areas and glass it properly. The material doesn't particularly matter.
__________________
"They'll get out of the way. I learned that drivin' the Saratoga."
AbaftAndBaffled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:16   #12
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
Images: 4
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbaftAndBaffled View Post
The right solution is to grind out the damaged areas and glass it properly. The material doesn't particularly matter.
Or slap on some antifouling .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:21   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Boat: 40' Northstar 80/20
Posts: 122
Images: 2
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Yup, ready to go in the water. :P

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it isn't so much a matter of whether you're using epoxy, polyester or vinylester, it's a matter of whether or not you've done the due diligence in actually repairing the damage - and when you've done it right, you don't need to worry about what you've used.

Though I will add, encountering vinylester and epoxy repairs has been nothing but a headache for us.
__________________
"They'll get out of the way. I learned that drivin' the Saratoga."
AbaftAndBaffled is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:34   #14
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,886
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbaftAndBaffled View Post
As you can see from the radiating damage, it wasn't the solution.

The holes are spots that someone just filled with epoxy. I couldn't tell you what created the holes, it was delivered to us this way. The cracks all radiate out from those holes. I suspect that moisture was trapped inside the hull when someone attempted this epoxy repair, so all they managed to do was seal water inside. Once winter came around, the water freezes and expands, forces voids in the glass and allows more water to get in. Apparently the damage wasn't this visible for a while, and when we ground open the bottom there was even more damage than you could see through the gelcoat.

The right solution is to grind out the damaged areas and glass it properly. The material doesn't particularly matter.
Wow...picture just came up in giant size and now can see the rest of the damage..knew it was either too simple or to complicated based on your post...just wanted to know which one...

Did you find out what the impact was? Did the cracks go all the way through?
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-08-2013, 13:42   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hamilton
Boat: 40' Northstar 80/20
Posts: 122
Images: 2
Re: Epoxy vs Polyester or vinylester resin

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Wow...picture just came up in giant size and now can see the rest of the damage..knew it was either too simple or to complicated based on your post...just wanted to know which one...

Did you find out what the impact was? Did the cracks go all the way through?
I don't think it is/was an impact at all, I think it's just age and lack of care. It may have sank at some point, though that in and of itself shouldn't be enough to write a hull off. Our own boat sank down to the gunwales (long before it became ours) and the hull is still in immaculate shape.

Jeez, I've derailed this thread. D:

One thing I will say for any type of repair on a boat, if you're using a material other than what it was built with, make sure you document it somewhere as a reference so people down the road know what they're dealing with.
__________________
"They'll get out of the way. I learned that drivin' the Saratoga."
AbaftAndBaffled is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epoxy

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
how to build a thick fiberglass laminate using epoxy resin?? albergsailor Monohull Sailboats 7 18-08-2013 08:36
Can this hull be fixed? westernspirit Construction, Maintenance & Refit 73 20-07-2013 11:58
Epoxy or Polyester Question rhr1956 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 16 21-01-2012 17:53
Vinylester vs Epoxy avazquez Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 06-08-2011 09:11

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.