Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 05-02-2010, 18:09   #1
Registered User
 
glenn.225's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Albin Vega 27'
Posts: 533
Epoxy Help

Hi all

I have been doing a little project, building new cockpit locker hatches/seats and doors for my Vega. Made out of Brazilian cherry and some other flooring I had lying around. I decided that I would epoxy coat these before varnishing. To start with I don’t have any experience with epoxy other than the “five minute” type, but have worked with other finishes on wood and metal. I had sanded all the pieces to 220 before coating with West system105 and 207 hardener, applied not too thick (in my opinion) with small foam roller. Because I have to lay them flat to dry I can only do one side at a time. Some surfaces have two coats some have three with sanding to 220 before the third coat. So here is my problem, even after the third coat I am getting a lot of sink holes (don’t know a better way to describe it) in the epoxy, sort of like “orange peel” when you are spray painting. I have been very careful to avoid contamination after building and sanding in the garage I moved to the basement utility room for refinishing. No dust there and then wiped everything down with a tack cloth. After sanding the second coat (in the garage) I wiped it down with a clean cloth and a very little acetone. That being said some sections are coming out very nicely but others have imperfections. Is there some other technique I should be using or does it just take more coats, with sanding in between? I’ve included a few pic’s.

Glenn
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Doors after sanding.jpg
Views:	355
Size:	117.7 KB
ID:	13014   Click image for larger version

Name:	side covers after sanding.jpg
Views:	384
Size:	126.7 KB
ID:	13015  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Side covers-one coat epoxy.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	242.3 KB
ID:	13016   Click image for larger version

Name:	Port cover-two coats.jpg
Views:	225
Size:	323.1 KB
ID:	13017  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Starboard cover-two coats.jpg
Views:	325
Size:	110.9 KB
ID:	13018   Click image for larger version

Name:	Door-sanded and third coat.jpg
Views:	438
Size:	273.6 KB
ID:	13019  

glenn.225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 18:21   #2
Registered User
 
sailvayu's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Fort Myers FL
Boat: Irwin 40
Posts: 878
Sand (120) between ALL coats and brush on. Throw that foam roller in the trash. If you have to use it tip with brush. Use slow harder. I swear I do not understand why so many think epoxy is the answer to everything. It will peel in the end.

Good luck
__________________
Capt. Wayne Canning, AMS
www.projectboat.info
https://sailvayu.com/
sailvayu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 18:23   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
I used 105/207 over the entire cabin interior and I got a mirror finish after 5 coats.

Much of the first coast will soak in to the wood leaving small craters. Subsequent coats will gradually fill in those craters. I find it can take as many as 5 coats to completely fill in the craters. Sand between coats just enough to knock down the high spots....then rough up the surface with a 3M pad to knock any gloss off the low spots. Using the 3M pad I think is critical to stopping the orange peeling. Glossy surfaces seem to repel the next coat and roughed up surfaces seem to accept the next coat better. I see it as a similar difference between a drop of rain that hits waxed car paint versus hitting a cotton towel.

Orange peeling, which is different from gradually filling in the low spots, can also occur from using the wrong part B or when the room temperature is too low.

Is your room temperature high enough?
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 18:46   #4
Registered User
 
glenn.225's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Albin Vega 27'
Posts: 533
sailvayu

I used the epoxy to get a coating with a little durability varnish is too fragile for me, I tend to abuse things and I will try the brush.

David

Ok sand and more coats.

Thanks
glenn.225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 18:47   #5
Registered User
 
glenn.225's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kingston, ON
Boat: Albin Vega 27'
Posts: 533
David

yes temp is 65-67 degrees

Glenn
glenn.225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 19:03   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
That temp should be ok. I would not want it any lower though.

Try the trick with the 3M Scotchbrite pad. Use the kind meant for painting, not for dishes. I like the dark red ones for doing this.


__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2010, 21:58   #7
always in motion is the future
 
s/v Jedi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 19,534
Agree with David. You are probably having trouble with amine blush. You should sand it wet (water dissolves the amine). To get a mirror surface, sand wet and hose some water over it and look how it runs off it... you will immediately see the trouble spots as little "rapids". Also, when wet it'll show you how it looks after the next layer is on.

Of course, after all that epoxy work you still need to paint or varnish it. Epoxy a little scrap and test your varnish on that to find if it's compatible. Find another varnish if not.

The best thing to do on bare wood is first vacuum it and next heat it just before the first layer of epoxy goes on. Use a heat-gun for that. You will get more penetration into the wood plus you prevent the bubbles.

The bubbles are caused by gas/air expanding with the rise in temperature by the curing epoxy. When you heat it first, you gas it before the epoxy comes on and it will actually be sucked in as it cools.

Do not use tack cloths etc. Wet sand, wash with water, let dry. no touching, no cloths, no thinner/acetone, no nothing. All that will just contaminate the surface.

click the photo for the complete album. We put a layer of glass on too but the rest is the same.



ciao!
Nick.
s/v Jedi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2011, 06:50   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 35
Re: Epoxy Help

I have a fiberglass boat, and I took off all antifoil from the hull.
I want to put an epoxy primer on top of the existing primer, but I have to know what primer there is on now.
What kind of test can I do to find out if the undercoat is epoxy or not, there must be a way.
Best regards. Willy
mbu745 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2011, 07:52   #9
Registered User
 
doug86's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Between Block Island and Bahamas
Boat: Marine Trader 40' Sedan Trawler, 1978. WATER TORTURE
Posts: 715
Re: Epoxy Help

Amine blush is a likely source of your problem.

"Cured epoxy
- Unless you're using WEST SYSTEM's blush-free 207 Special Clear Hardener, amine blush may appear as a wax-like film on cured epoxy surfaces. It is a by-product of the curing process and may be more noticeable in cool, moist conditions. Amine blush can clog sandpaper and inhibit subsequent bonding, but this inert substance can easily be removed.
To remove the blush, wash the surface with clean water (not solvent) and an abrasive pad, such as Scotch-brite(TM) 7447 General Purpose Hand Pads. Dry the surface with paper towels to remove the dissolved blush before it dries on the surface. Sand any remaining glossy areas with 80-grit sandpaper. Wet-sanding will also remove the amine blush. If a release fabric is applied over the surface of fresh epoxy, amine blush will be removed when the release fabric is peeled from the cured epoxy and no additional sanding is required."


see: Surface Preparation
__________________
"When one is willing to go without, then one is free to go." - doug86
doug86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2011, 08:15   #10
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,594
Images: 75
Re: Epoxy Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by mbu745 View Post
I have a fiberglass boat, and I took off all antifoil from the hull.
I want to put an epoxy primer on top of the existing primer, but I have to know what primer there is on now.
What kind of test can I do to find out if the undercoat is epoxy or not, there must be a way.
Best regards. Willy
i use toluene to test epoxy primers,and xylene on barrier coat type primers.

xylene will cause a non epoxy to bubble and string when rubbed,and toluene will have no effect on an epoxy coating.

but generally aslong as the surface to be treated is well sanded,degreased and dry you will not have compatibility issues using an epoxyprimer.

added note xylene being an epoxy thinner and toluene being thinner for ablative type antifoulings,available from international paints,but cant remember the thinner number,look on the tin for content when buying.
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-03-2011, 08:42   #11
Registered User
 
FloridaWriter's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maitland, FL
Boat: Bristol 29
Posts: 230
Re: Epoxy Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn.225 View Post
Hi all

I have been doing a little project, building new cockpit locker hatches/seats and doors for my Vega. Made out of Brazilian cherry and some other flooring I had lying around. I decided that I would epoxy coat these before varnishing. To start with I don’t have any experience with epoxy other than the “five minute” type, but have worked with other finishes on wood and metal. I had sanded all the pieces to 220 before coating with West system105 and 207 hardener, applied not too thick (in my opinion) with small foam roller. Because I have to lay them flat to dry I can only do one side at a time. Some surfaces have two coats some have three with sanding to 220 before the third coat. So here is my problem, even after the third coat I am getting a lot of sink holes (don’t know a better way to describe it) in the epoxy, sort of like “orange peel” when you are spray painting. I have been very careful to avoid contamination after building and sanding in the garage I moved to the basement utility room for refinishing. No dust there and then wiped everything down with a tack cloth. After sanding the second coat (in the garage) I wiped it down with a clean cloth and a very little acetone. That being said some sections are coming out very nicely but others have imperfections. Is there some other technique I should be using or does it just take more coats, with sanding in between? I’ve included a few pic’s.

Glenn
I wouldn't use a tack cloth--the wax on the cloth may be part of the problem. If you are wet sanding before coating then anime blush is not the problem either. I would block sand the finish you have back to a smooth condition with 180 grade wet or dry. Then clean thoroughly with acetone (the issue may be oil in the wood you are using). Then apply the epoxy and tip gently with a wide foam brush. by the second coat it should be dead smooth, like this:

http://bristol29.com/Projects/Exteri...adeshape16.jpg

That is three coats of epoxy and two coats of System Three clear gloss LPU, which is typically what I do for all the brightwork. I use 800 grade wet or dry wet after the second coat of epoxy and between coats of the LPU.

Good luck,

David
__________________
David www.bristol29.com
"The lookout that first sights the cat shall have ten guineas and remission of sins, short of mutiny, sodomy, or damaging the paintwork." - Jack Aubrey
FloridaWriter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
epoxy

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Epoxy Before Varnish unbusted67 Product or Service Reviews & Evaluations 16 02-12-2009 16:44
Will Vinylester Do or Is it Epoxy All the Way ? lancelots Multihull Sailboats 21 26-11-2009 15:36
epoxy to ferro hooked on water Construction, Maintenance & Refit 28 17-04-2008 13:04
Epoxy Sparohok Construction, Maintenance & Refit 69 07-04-2008 21:44
Epoxy and Vinylester Phillip Berman Multihull Sailboats 6 02-12-2007 00:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.