Electric and manual windlass combo?

[Eastward ho 24]

After a really good discussion about my bowsprit refit. I've got it ready to build. Forward thinking twards my windlass and alas so many brands types etc. I was looking at a seatiger 555 from ukspares it's like 2g! I'm seeing electric ones for the same price and under. But I don't know enough to compare them. My boats a downeaster 32 17000lb displacement full keel heavy type criser. I'm refitting for ocean passages and extended world cruising. I don't have an anchoring system in place as of yet. But now that I'm on the sprit I might as well square that away. I like the idea of a manual windlass, but as far as safteys concern is the retrevial to slow on the manual types?. (I'll either be a crew of one or just the wife and I) I'm looking at the lofrans royal( to small?) The seatiger 555, and there's some of the old abi manual types on eBay . My electrical system is in it's infancy so realistically I figure what ever I get I'll need to accommodate. I don't like the idea of an extra battery and wires to install but.... I'm looking at the windlass as part of survival gear and setting and retrieval ease and speed in my mind will; make me more likely to anchor in deeper and more protected places, then if I knew I had to battle with tons of chain, Spend less time drifting into a dangerous situation while I'm retrevieing, and allow me to pull up and move faster if a boat was dragging into me etc. And lastly help pull in rode if I were to lay Hove to a sea anchor. Im a subscriber to the kiss philosophy and have been under Murphy's law. So the manual seatigers that you see everywhere on 43footers seem to be the way to go. But on the other hand is it inheretly safer to have an electric? Ideally I'd like to find an electric that has a manual back up that I could use manually when possible and electric when the need presents itself. ....what should I be looking for?
I'll need one that does ;rope anchor and chain has free fall and has manual back up. I haven't gotten far enough to know what size rope,chain, and anchor, I'll need. Thanks every one

[coopec43]

A few links that might help.

Many times I have read that an electric winch is a safety factor as sometimes you may not be completely happy with the way your anchor has set but the thought of manually retrieving it and resetting is just too much. (And you have alluded to that fact)


Anchor Windlass - Which one?

windlass - can any electric ones be used manually ? [Archive] - Yachting and Boating World Forums

I have a Muir anchor winch which comes with a handle to retrieve the anchor in case of an electrical/mechanical fault. This link will give a guide to selecting an anchor.

https://nautikulma.fi/PDF/525-Muir.pdf


Clive

[model 10]

Someone who knows nothing will not be able to save their ass with a manual windlass. You will be screaming to which ever god you can think of to pull the boat fwd or the anchor in. That god is 12v.

[rbk]

Tigres 5017 elec manual is a good option. Don’t forget to add another boat buck to complete the install. Extra battery, cable charger etc. If you’re going manual check out the loftans manual royal for <1k 555’s are great but even ones that need a rebuild are 2k

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by rbk

Tigres 5017 elec manual is a good option. Don’t forget to add another boat buck to complete the install. Extra battery, cable charger etc. If you’re going manual check out the loftans manual royal for <1k 555’s are great but even ones that need a rebuild are 2k

I have a bigger boat, all chain rode and opted for the Tigres, too. It goes in this winter.

[rbk]

I was concerned about manual retrieval rate but from what I've been able to find, it seems to be comparable to the 555 on both the tigres and the royal.

[degouwb]

Save your money on the dedicated battery for the windless. Normally your engine will be running when you retrive and deploy your ground tackle

[Cheechako]

Just get a good electric. You'll never look back

[Nanamuk]

We have used the Lofrans Royal for 40 years and 80,000 miles, 300 Ft 5/16 HT chain and a 66 lb Bruce on our Endurance 35 - never wanted an electric. It always works even when the engine is off and the batteries iffy. An electric only has 1 speed no matter how scared you are whereas adrenaline will get that anchor up such that the chain flies off the gypsy so fast it barely has time to fall into the anchor locker. Here in the PNW we have several 70 ft plus anchorages and even at our advanced age we have never not re-anchored if the admiral is not happy.

[Fore and Aft]

We have a Muir manual anchor winch. The chain comes in pretty fast and by the end I am usually sitting on the bow deck catching my breath.
I always say to the wife once my gut is gone we are going electric.
Cheers

[Mike OReilly]

My boat is #30,000, 37-footer. My bower is made up of a #55 Rocna and 250’ 3/8” chain.

I have a manual (bronze Plath/ABI). It has never failed me, and never let me down. It is dead simple to operate and maintain. I have never encountered a situation which I could not manage with it. It has not prevented me from anchoring where I wanted to. And I anchor out a lot.

Points to consider.

#1. It takes longer to retrieve, but in my estimation only about two or three times as long as an electric.

#2. It requires some manual strength, but not more than operating any proper-sized winch. I am not particularly strong or fit, and I’ve never had a problem hauling in with it. My wife, who is less strong (but more fit ) than I operates it as much as I.

#3. I almost always cruise with my wife. If I were soloing, a manual windlass might become more challenging at times. It would do is force me to make different choices, is all.

I’m not arguing against a good electric windlass. I offer my example to show it is not needed. And a manual comes with some added KISS features which it sounds like you are already aware of.

[Jim Cate]

On our previous boat we had manual windlasses. The first was a Simpson Lawrnce Hyspeed (single speed). It failed catastrophically in Tahiti when the internal bicycle chain broke. It was some ten years of age, but little use before we bought the boat and started full time cruising.

We replaced it with a two speed manual from Maxwell (I forget the model name). It was a lot better to use than the Hyspeed, but it too failed after around 8 years usage. It had Sprague clutches internally and t hey just wore out and began to slip.

Point is that manual windlasses are not fool proof and totally reliable. In our experience, they have had similar failure rates as the Maxwell electric models on our current boat: two failures in 15 years and 60,000 miles. Interestingly, these failures were both due to corrosion of the body of t he windlass due to dissimilar metal proximity, not electrical at all.

And I really do prefer the ease and speed of the electric models.

Jim

[roverhi]

The 555 has two speed settings for rode retrieval depending on which slot you use for the crank. Doubt very much if a manually operated electric winch would have the higher speed setting.

Was never much of a fan of electric windlasses till I saw an 38' Ingrid maneuvering around inside the reef on Tahiti. They dropped and picked up their anchor a half dozen times moving a hundred yards or so on each drop/retrieval. It seemed like odd behavior so I asked them what they were doing. The said they were snorkeling for shells and would cover an area then move their boat to another location. Retrieving the anchor with an electric windlass was so easy that they used their 30,000# boat like a dinghy. Granted an electric windlass can fail but when they are working they are great.

[billgewater]

My own tub is a 35 ton 16 m ketch. We have both a manual and electric winch. Half inch chain, hernia model anchors. The manual winch was initially installed but for such a large heavy boat it proved to be a challenge - and I was very fit then!. I finally found a second hand electric winch which I overhauled with new bearings and seals. The 12 V supply comes from very heavy welding cables that run from the engine room battery banks. Anchor raising is only done with the engine running and the winch runs for very short periods to allow the boat to mosey up to to the anchor and to care for the batteries and minimize the winch loading. There is a deck foot switch to a relay. This system has been in place for 40 years and until recently has had absolutely no problems. Now the gear box bottom seal has decided to bleed oil. One drop per year.

The option of having a secondary battery near the winch was put aside as it simply meant more problems plus it was cheaper to buy the heavy duty cable (a one off purchase) instead of a battery and associated fittings/mountings etc. The cables are also used to provide power "terminals" for later installations such as a deck wash pump and some added interior lighting (rather than run dedicated cables back to the switch board and negative bus.) There is a 100 A circuit breaker at the winch and also back at the engine room.
The electric winch can be operated by any child or geriatric, leaving the management (my wife) to make her usual judgments and decisions.
My electric winch is a Muir model but I would suggest that Eastward Ho check out the reliability and "overhaulability" of any potential purchase. Carry a spare set of bearings and seals etc.

[Argyle38]

I have a Lofrans Tigress on my Downeaster 38. 1200W 12V with a manual operation as well. Fits well on the '38 bow, I'd expect the 32 would be pretty similar. I have both foot switches on the deck at the bow and a wired remote switch near the helm.



In my opinion it's safer to have electric if you're single handing, but a lot of single handers have been sailing for a long time with manual. Electric definitely gives you options. The manual operation means you can still operate if your electricity isn't working right or if the windlass motor goes kaput.