Edson Steering Failure Be Warned

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Opie91

If you don't know already I cannot help....

Ahh, I see, you are helpless.....

[Opie91]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Ahh, I see, you are helpless.....

OH Bob your sooo good

[Sailing Ohm]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

And what, pray tell, leads you to the conclusion that I am disparaging an entire country?

Are USA citizens more litigious than other countries citizens? I don’t officially know...

Now did Bob have to create division by over generalizing? No.

Could he have made the same point without creating an “us vs them” label? Yes.

Does he realize his speech is divisive? It doesn’t sound like it and this moment. But one day he might get there.

Can he learn to speak with non violent communication? Sure! Everyone can.

Does he want to? Only Bob knows that answer.

[Sailing Ohm]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Oh dear, why am I not surprised that an American is advocating legal action but no mention of personal responsibility or routine inspection and maintenance??

A quite google search shows that USA is not the most litigious...

“When you think about the 10 most litigious countries in the world, many people would immediately think of the United States of America (US). However, the Land of the Free only comes in at number 5. Germany is the top nation in the world for litigious behaviour. Sweden comes in at number 2, Israel is at number 3, and Austria number 4. The field is rounded out in this order: The United Kingdom (UK) at number 6; Denmark at number 7; Hungary number 8; Portugal at number 9; and France at number 10.”

https://www.jurorsrule.com/10-most-l...-in-the-world/

This is just to highlight that stereotypes are often based on fallacies and do nothing to further productive conversation

[NorthCoastJoe]

Originally Posted by thunderhoof

I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that Edson, to save $3, used plain vs stainless steel in the turning block support plate. As an engineer I see that as the suits showing no regard for the users about an item that that directly affects safety.
I hope a significant class action suit arises from this issue.

This just bugs the crap out of me .... ( I hope a significant class action suit arises from this issue. ) That would just drive costs up for everyone.

Maybe you should grab a light and inspect your boat too. Most boats I have seen there are areas that nobody ever looks at until something fails. Boats live in a harsh environment and require constant inspection and maintenance.

How about the auto companies for all the people that don't maintain their cars then cry when they break down. Over the years I have worked on a lot of boats, cars, tractors, etc. Too many people neglect then whine a lot. Blaming the manufactuer, some stuff is junk but Edson is not junk.

[alitaptap]

Excellent discussion . . . excellent feedback



1) I never said that Edison was at fault to the point where they should be sued - this is a 35 year old yacht and I think Edson would be in the clear on this issue, with or without an available check list from the company owner



2) an aluminium plate would have been a much better solution: originally, and for our rapid repair but no aluminium was available for the latter as it was officially a holiday in Puerto Galera and we had to make do with what was available - we actually cannibalized a (disused) water-tank to make the replacement SS plate . . . needs must when the devil drives you to the start line



3) it should have been on the maintenance check-list but so much had been checked, and addressed by the owner during the previous few lock-down months, but some things were deemed higher priority at the time . . .



4) the post was designed to draw attention to the need to check an item that is frequently overlooked because it is one of the few things that almost always work as expected . . . until they do not




As a guest skipper on this adventure I learned that even when the owner says everything is good to go it is still important to check the entire steering system, along with everything else. After 30 years on the water - cruising and racing - there are still some things that are sometimes overlooked when time is limited. The old adage comes to mind: never sail to a time frame.



The good things were: (a) the emergency tiller was where it was reported to be; (b) the otherwise novice crew aboard were there to learn and they did learn how to control/maneuver a yacht without the rudder; and, (c) we all arrived home safe.


Sailing is all about safely enjoying voyaging to a horizon; I think we did that on the day and if others now double-check their steering system as a result of this post then they will have an improved chance of achieving their own horizons in the future.

[walkabout08]

Great post, I check my Edson steering system every spring but I've never removed the idler wheels or the plate they're attached to. But then I've never seen any rust holes in the plate either. . .

Never forget, the most dangerous piece of equipment on a boat (or a plane) is a calendar!

[JBsurfin]

Originally Posted by alitaptap

If you have older Edson Steering systems on your yacht then check this potential failure point frequently.



The Moment Of Failure: I was helming a 1990's generation Jeanneau Sun Kiss 47 upwind during the 'All Souls Regatta 2020' in Puerto Galera, Philippines, when all of a sudden no steering!


Cause: bottom plate - secures the pulley blocks that turn the cables from helm to rudder quadrant - massively corroded and one of the blocks simply detached from the plate.


Action Taken: we used the sails to steer the yacht into a gybe (to set our course back to the start) while the emergency tiller was located and installed, we started the engine so that we had power to steer the yacht through the channel into the mooring area (the channel is too narrow to safely rely on tacking with the strong, gusty wind using emergency tiller).



Observation: bottom plate was steel, i.e. not stainless steel, and was separated from the cockpit floor with a wooden spacer - probably to allow for not-so-flat plate fittings - and the wood had become damp - probably from condensation or possibly from seawater ingress around binnacle base although that seemed improbable because of copious sealant around cockpit floor.


Solution: fabricate replacement wooden spacer and seal with epoxy, fabricate new stainless bottom plate, secure pulley blocks to new plate, drill out old corroded alloy bolts (that pass through cockpit floor to secure binnacle to plate - they were totally seized), bolt wooden spacer and bottom plate into place with new bolts, run cables and adjust tension at quadrant.


Penalty: we could not complete race day 1, we could not enter race day 2 as we were sourcing the solution and, although ready with solution on day 3, race day 3 was cancelled due to incoming tropical storm. Sad crew and sad yacht owner . . .



Suggestion: if you have an older yacht with Edson Steering systems then check the bottom plate (below the binnacle) for corrosion at regular intervals and replace as necessary.


Photographs of corroded steel plate and fabricated stainless steel replacement plate attached.

I have a 1981 system, but with any old boat, checking systems, chainplates and other items of wear or possible exposure to corrosion, becomes a annual inspection.

[richardhc]

Thank you alitaptap for a very excellent post.
My Edson system is a 1987 vintage and the plate is solid stainless and in perfect condition. Also it is mounted off to the side of the cable hole, well bedded flat on the overhead so there is no way for water to leak under it.
Strange the next generation went to inferior steel and a poor design that would allow water to get at the back of the plate.
In 40 years the only things to fail on the system have been the circlip behind the steering wheel, the brake pads the mounting bolts (they didn't break, but were corroded. I had to drill 3 of them out). There is a little play in the turning pulleys - the shaft is OK but the pulleys need replacing.

[stormalong]

Originally Posted by richardhc

Thank you alitaptap for a very excellent post.
My Edson system is a 1987 vintage and the plate is solid stainless and in perfect condition. Also it is mounted off to the side of the cable hole, well bedded flat on the overhead so there is no way for water to leak under it.
Strange the next generation went to inferior steel and a poor design that would allow water to get at the back of the plate.
In 40 years the only things to fail on the system have been the circlip behind the steering wheel, the brake pads the mounting bolts (they didn't break, but were corroded. I had to drill 3 of them out). There is a little play in the turning pulleys - the shaft is OK but the pulleys need replacing.

As I posted earlier the pulleys have replaceable bushings You can get the bushings from Edson. Also, on my 1985 steering system the pulley axles were brass or bronze and badly worn, mine is a high mileage boat.

I replaced the axles with modified SS clevis pins. They were modified by drilling a small hole down the center of the pin and an intersecting hole across the pin so that it lands in the middle of the pulley bushing. The end of the axial hole was tapped for a grease nipple. Now the pulleys can be greased without dis-assembly. Overkill? probably but I am an overkill kind of maintenance guy. It helps if you have a small lathe.

[Carl-T705]

Originally Posted by thunderhoof

I'm sorry, but I cannot accept that Edson, to save $3, used plain vs stainless steel in the turning block support plate. As an engineer I see that as the suits showing no regard for the users about an item that that directly affects safety.
I hope a significant class action suit arises from this issue.

That is your hope.... Typical CA answer to every problem, class action lawsuit needed. How about read the paperwork that came with the product.... You know like the warning on a pack of cigarettes..

[exMaggieDrum]

Originally Posted by alitaptap

If you have older Edson Steering systems on your yacht then check this potential failure point frequently.



The Moment Of Failure: I was helming a 1990's generation Jeanneau Sun Kiss 47 upwind during the 'All Souls Regatta 2020' in Puerto Galera, Philippines, when all of a sudden no steering!


Cause: bottom plate - secures the pulley blocks that turn the cables from helm to rudder quadrant - massively corroded and one of the blocks simply detached from the plate.


Action Taken: we used the sails to steer the yacht into a gybe (to set our course back to the start) while the emergency tiller was located and installed, we started the engine so that we had power to steer the yacht through the channel into the mooring area (the channel is too narrow to safely rely on tacking with the strong, gusty wind using emergency tiller).



Observation: bottom plate was steel, i.e. not stainless steel, and was separated from the cockpit floor with a wooden spacer - probably to allow for not-so-flat plate fittings - and the wood had become damp - probably from condensation or possibly from seawater ingress around binnacle base although that seemed improbable because of copious sealant around cockpit floor.


Solution: fabricate replacement wooden spacer and seal with epoxy, fabricate new stainless bottom plate, secure pulley blocks to new plate, drill out old corroded alloy bolts (that pass through cockpit floor to secure binnacle to plate - they were totally seized), bolt wooden spacer and bottom plate into place with new bolts, run cables and adjust tension at quadrant.


Penalty: we could not complete race day 1, we could not enter race day 2 as we were sourcing the solution and, although ready with solution on day 3, race day 3 was cancelled due to incoming tropical storm. Sad crew and sad yacht owner . . .



Suggestion: if you have an older yacht with Edson Steering systems then check the bottom plate (below the binnacle) for corrosion at regular intervals and replace as necessary.


Photographs of corroded steel plate and fabricated stainless steel replacement plate attached.

Last year I was looking for an additional quadrant for a new autopilot since I couldn't use the one used by the cable and pulley with an Edison binnacle. I'm not 100% sure, but 99.9%, that this was the original one put in by the factory in 1982.


We got in to a discussion of my whole system and he asked how old the binnacle was. I told him at least 40 years. He said, flat out, that Edison's policy is that every one of their binnacles (including all current ones) should be replaced every 10 years.


I was flabbergasted. I routinely inspected all the pulleys and the wire cable and all attachment points for the pulley, plus all the other gear in the steering system. I asked him repeatedly and he said that inspections would not allow for not replacing the binnacle every 10 years.