Does this price seem right?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Chotu,

I've got to echo what others have said.
A 50' cat is a massive undertaking...massive !!!
I've know many others that have tackled these large build projects.
These kind of projects are extremely challenging to do for a single person, both financially and from a labor point of view.

You have to remember....you can only eat the elephant one bit at a time!!

As one that built my own boat, I often took a left turn, when I should have gone straight, but I always found the way back.

When I started my build, I though I could do it in one year for $10K. Three years later, I splashed it for considerably more than the $10K.

'jes sayin'....

If all I was doing was building a 50 foot catamaran, I’d be donee long time ago

The massive undertaking was losing all the money for the build when I started it, having to work to get that back, having my immune system go crazy from epoxy and having it destroy my health (did you know I now can no longer have dairy, citrus, can’t be around any must mildew or mold, and certainly epoxy will put me right in the hospital if not the grave), Having a heart attack and recovering from that this year. These were the massive undertakings. Not building a boat. Building about its child’s play compared to the rest of that stuff.

Building a boat is also pretty hard when you can’t put your own hands on it. I have become so sensitized to all of the chemicals I can’t even touch them. Even vinylester was killing me the other day. I smelled it blowing around a little bit, the styrene, next thing I knew I had a massive sinus headache. The next day my sinuses had their period. The inner wall came off and blood was coming out.

This is not the same as when people build a boat. I have faced things that no one has faced building a boat. If I hadn’t had to face these things, I would be done a long time ago.

And I guess I’m just off the deep end because I got some more bad news in the health department. The drugs that I’m taking to keep cholesterol low had a wonderful side effect where they stopped all of the inflammation that I had that was a result of the epoxy immune system issues. They stopped it dead. I haven’t had trouble breathing in a major way since I had the heart attack. I got used to living a normal life again.

And now today I just found out that I might have to go off these drugs because they are destroying my liver.

I’m just at my wits end.

I am having trouble submitting up the reserves to face any more of this.

[Madehn]

Forgot to mention. You can do everything but the welding. None of it is that hard or that expensive. Polishing takes time lots of it. Drilling absolutely requires good COBALT drill bits and cutting oil. Drill with lots of pressure and very slow speed. Use a spring punch to mark the center of the hole to start your bit. Using a drill press makes it relatively easy. Cutting is pretty easy to do with an angle grinder. If you have precision cutting to do on flat plate find somebody with a water jet. I recently had my boat name cut out of SS and it was only about 7o bucks more than the vinyl lettering that I looked at.

[Tetepare]

Originally Posted by zstine

In the USA this would be illegal. The supplier must either state a minimum buy or clearly disclose that you are being charged for materials not received. Otherwise it is stealing. And violates several consumer protection and financial billing laws. They cannot charge for the materials until the order is fulfilled/shipped either. If they advertise the material prices, then it should be easy for Chotu to see if he was charged for more material than he received. And if he was, I would be getting a refund if I was him!

Celestial already debunked this. I don’t know where people dream up this stuff.

OP is lucky to have found anyone to make this part. Most welding and machine shops are not taking work from anyone but prior clients. We are paying the price for Trades are Dead thinking of the 1990s.

You want a part, you buy or don’t. When one does find a good shop, better treat them right. They don’t need to suffer idiots, nor will they.

Complaining about the cost of a part after the matter is a waste of time. But it does make for entertainment.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Chotu

If all I was doing was building a 50 foot catamaran, I’d be donee long time ago

The massive undertaking was losing all the money for the build when I started it, having to work to get that back, having my immune system go crazy from epoxy and having it destroy my health (did you know I now can no longer have dairy, citrus, can’t be around any must mildew or mold, and certainly epoxy will put me right in the hospital if not the grave), Having a heart attack and recovering from that this year. These were the massive undertakings. Not building a boat. Building about its child’s play compared to the rest of that stuff.

Building a boat is also pretty hard when you can’t put your own hands on it. I have become so sensitized to all of the chemicals I can’t even touch them. Even vinylester was killing me the other day. I smelled it blowing around a little bit, the styrene, next thing I knew I had a massive sinus headache. The next day my sinuses had their period. The inner wall came off and blood was coming out.

This is not the same as when people build a boat. I have faced things that no one has faced building a boat. If I hadn’t had to face these things, I would be done a long time ago.

And I guess I’m just off the deep end because I got some more bad news in the health department. The drugs that I’m taking to keep cholesterol low had a wonderful side effect where they stopped all of the inflammation that I had that was a result of the epoxy immune system issues. They stopped it dead. I haven’t had trouble breathing in a major way since I had the heart attack. I got used to living a normal life again.

And now today I just found out that I might have to go off these drugs because they are destroying my liver.

I’m just at my wits end.

I am having trouble submitting up the reserves to face any more of this.

You need to remind yourself why you are doing this. Note, remind yourself - not remind me or anyone else on CF.

What was previously good, even great reasons yesterday may not be good reasons today or tomorrow.

Obviously I don't have the answers and neither might you but you are the only one who can decide which path to follow. It sounds like you are at a road junction ATM. The latest fabrication job could simply be a 'stop sign', i.e. stop and look both ways before deciding where to go next, left - right - or straight ahead.

[AKA-None]

An item costs what it costs at a particular time in a particular place with a particular timeframe
So for others who say I could have or did get something similar done for 1/x the cost well it depends
Is it what you wanted and when you wanted it? Could you afford it from anywhere else at the same time in the same place?
Like yes I can buy a stainless screw for less but if I need it now where I’m at then does it really matter that my sister’s husbands uncle can get it a thousand miles away two weeks from now does it matter if I need it now, here?

[Celestialsailor]

The point Chotu was trying to really express was not so much the isolated incident of cost of the pin and bushing as the frustration of the project that has taken a toll on his emotional and physical well being. He's just venting. I've built 3 boats from scratch. Two of my own and one with a friend. I have restored 7 fiberglass boats. These tasks are daunting. Many times I had to just step back and take some time off. Hang out with friends...take a vacation. He'll find what he needs.

[MicHughV]

I get the frustration.

When I started to build my boat, I rented a plot of vacant land. There I decided to build a big workshop to lay out the frames, store the welder, and other tools.

Up to this time, I barely knew which end of a hammer to hold.

But I set to it, and in relatively short time, managed to fabricate a pretty neat 12' x12' work shed.

When it was complete, I set back to admire it.
That night it rained with some gusty winds.

When I woke up the next morning, my ...to my eye....beautifully crafted work shed lay in tatters on the ground.

This was a serious blow to my ego. If I could not manage to build a simple wood frame shop how was I going to build a complicated structure like a boat.

But having little choice, I set to it again. This time where there was one nail, I used four.

It did not fall down again, but the roof leaked...badly.....so the roof had to come off and rebuilt with more roof pitch.

All told, it was a maddening frustrating deal, and I had yet to fabricate the first frame of my boat.

At that time, my wife and I had only one car, which she used to go to work. I rode my bicycle, a trip of about 7 miles each way. This also took it's toll on me and I eventually bought a small travel trailer, which became my home away from home, as I often worked into the small hours of the night.

I got know many homebuilders. Lack of experience took it's toll on all of them, but we endured.

I relate these events only to provide a glimpse of what likely most homebuilders go thru'.

You gotta stick it out. The end is very near now, just take a deep breath, settle down and get back on the horse. This particular deal is done and dusted. You've learned from it and can apply this experience to the next project.

[GRIT]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

The point Chotu was trying to really express was not so much the isolated incident of cost of the pin and bushing as the frustration of the project that has taken a toll on his emotional and physical well being. He's just venting. I've built 3 boats from scratch. Two of my own and one with a friend. I have restored 7 fiberglass boats. These tasks are daunting. Many times I had to just step back and take some time off. Hang out with friends...take a vacation. He'll find what he needs.

Exactly that.
Venting is often required to get things running again.

You'll get there CHOTU!

Cheers.
Paul.

[Sidney777]

Take a look here & if they have? https://mailchi.mp/speedymetals/apr2022?e=9efe257183

[nofacey]

Built 50ft monohull largely by myself…..thought 3-5 years when I started…..went sailing 15 years later. Spent wayyy too much building her - Then took her offshore for 5 years.

It was worth every hour/penny.

Very very few individuals build their own offshore boats, then cruise them. It’s not an easy group you’re looking join…..but it’s damn rewarding once you’re out there. Chin up.

[majnun]

If you ask the machine shop for a breakdown of the costs, they will probably oblige you. It seems high but, on reflection, not so high. The hourly rate may be $150. That leaves 3.5 hours to do the following: cutting to length, locating the locus of the holes, drilling, relieving all the edges, polishing, and, possibly, passivating the rods to prevent corrosion. The individual jobs may not take much time, but the setup usually takes longer. The shop probably used a $25M milling machine and a skilled machinist at $45 p/h, add taxes, insurance and overhead, and you end up with a $500 tab.
NB. Also, if a lathe was used, it was to true up the rods not for the other processes.

[Jopinot]

For what it’s worth a quick reference to Gaulling:
All 300 series austenitic Stainless Steels (as you all probably have experienced) are prone to gaulling. Prevention of (clean dry stainless) from gauling requires a >10% variation in hardness. A tricky thing with similar parts and sizes, but usually achievable with different grades. Most commonly done with 316 bolts and 2205 nuts or visa-versa like on a prop shaft. Try to select a grade further up the corrosion resistance scale and strength for marine applications. Nickel pastes and thread sealers are also useful, however they reduce oxygen exposure and therefore the ability of the chromium to maintain corrosion resistance.
For more info on Stainless Steels the International Stainless Steel Development Association ISSDA has great online reference materials.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by majnun

The individual jobs may not take much time, but the setup usually takes longer. The shop probably used a $25M milling machine and a skilled machinist at $45 p/h, add taxes, insurance and overhead, and you end up with a $500 tab.
NB. Also, if a lathe was used, it was to true up the rods not for the other processes.

This is manual machine work. My mill was $3500 used and has paid itself off about 20 times. Same with my lathe, welders, saws, ect. Top Machinist in Ca. get around $35@hr. but I would say 95% make around $25-$30@hr.
Since I own a Machine Shop I broke the price down in post 11. Most shops here in Northern Ca. charge $120@hr. It's true they have overhead and need to make machine payments and employees overhead.

I never have more than 2 employees and own the property my shop is on. That said, my hourly rates are half of whats out there.
It's tough needing skilled labor. You can be at their mercy. Especially now when they don't want to bother with small jobs.

[alctel]

Yeah I don't think you got as massively ripped off as people are saying.

Polishing is really labour intensive and probably took a lot of the time.

Definitely was a bit of a surcharge added in to make it worth their time because of the current crazy state of stuff but I don't think you got totally hosed or anything.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by alctel

Yeah I don't think you got as massively ripped off as people are saying.

Polishing is really labour intensive and probably took a lot of the time.

Definitely was a bit of a surcharge added in to make it worth their time because of the current crazy state of stuff but I don't think you got totally hosed or anything.

But you can not charge $150/hr for polishing metal. No, the price is outrageous.