Diesel Polishing

[s/v Jedi]

I have not heard of Soltron. Was that an enzyme based product? Claimed better mileage? Pretty sure it was snake oil then.

The picture of the tank: when you had used Startron instead of a biocide it would have cleaned much of that. Biocide did nothing at all.

I read some comments where people state the the bacteria clog the filters, put leaks in tanks etc. Exactly that is why you want enzymes as they break them down (remains pass through filters and burn in combustion).

Then the comment about draining from the sump being better than using enzymes: well yeah... that’s why the polishing system I have does that and the diagram clearly shows it as well. But that does not change the fact that a biocide does nothing for a healthy tank while enzyme treatment does. Only use biocide when there is a problem. You don’t tarp and cook a house to prevent termites... you do that when you have termites.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I have not heard of Soltron. Was that an enzyme based product? Claimed better mileage? Pretty sure it was snake oil then.

The picture of the tank: when you had used Startron instead of a biocide it would have cleaned much of that. Biocide did nothing at all.

Soltron I think was one of the early enzyme treatments. A previous test suggested it didn't really work removing the contamination, so I stopped using it. Never used Startron which I think is similar distributed by Starbrite along with loads of other stuff for yachties in the UK and perhaps further afield.

Fuel set and Marine 16 are the two we have on board at the moment.

This is what the tank looked like following an afternoon with a 2" paint scrapper, rags and a scrub with clean diesel. Thankfully there is good access once you are in the cockpit locker. I checked it last November and no change which is good.

Pete

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by daletournier

What size is your day tank?

It has a usable capacity of 60 L (15 gallons). The actual tank is a bit bigger but it has a very deep sump to catch any debris/water.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Isn't Startron another name, or similar product on a theme, as Soltron? It was pushed hard in the UK during the mid 90s but seems to have fallen out of favour recently. They claimed better mileage too but that is difficult to prove in practise by an owner.
Pete

It may well be. Since I was unfamiliar with the product I looked it up. Its a Starbrite product and they write the name as Star tron

[sailah]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

The biggest problem is installing a seperate pick-up at the bottom of the tank. If this is difficult. Using the conventional engine pick-up that is usually well above the bottom will still work, just not quite as well.

When I first built my system I tied into engine pickup. Fortunately I was testing close to home as it was a major problem. The polishing pump was much stronger than the lift pump and was starving the engine. At the time I was sailing through a very strong gut and needed the engine. Almost went aground with the current. I shut off the pump and managed to refire the engine.

That was what caused me to build a completely separate polishing pickup and has been troublefree since then.

Course you could just elect to not run the polisher when the engine is running but I find that's exactly when I want to run it for battery, noise(!) and so it's switched to run whenever the Balmar regulator is powered by alternator via relay.

I machined up a special fitting to connect NPT for barbed fuel hose to compression fitting to attach standpipe. RTV and tapped into fuel tank after holesawing hole. The aluminum shavings that fell into the tank were immediately hoovered up by the polisher and found in the first filter. I did spend extra time to carefully test fit the standpipe to reach the furthest deepest point of the tank and it's likely below the engine pickup.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by sailah

When I first built my system I tied into engine pickup. Fortunately I was testing close to home as it was a major problem. The polishing pump was much stronger than the lift pump and was starving the engine. At the time I was sailing through a very strong gut and needed the engine. Almost went aground with the current. I shut off the pump and managed to refire the engine.

That was what caused me to build a completely separate polishing pickup and has been troublefree since then.

Course you could just elect to not run the polisher when the engine is running but I find that's exactly when I want to run it for battery, noise(!) and so it's switched to run whenever the Balmar regulator is powered by alternator via relay.


I machined up a special fitting to connect NPT for barbed fuel hose to compression fitting to attach standpipe. RTV and tapped into fuel tank after holesawing hole. The aluminum shavings that fell into the tank were immediately hoovered up by the polisher and found in the first filter. I did spend extra time to carefully test fit the standpipe to reach the furthest deepest point of the tank and it's likely below the engine pickup.

Keeping the fuel polishing system completely independent of the engine system is by far the best solution.

The polishing system can cause some temporary foaming of the diesel from the return flow in some circumstances. As well, polishing will stir up the tank contents and debris in the tank at least to some extent.

This is not what you want motoring so polishing an alternative tank to one used by the main engine, or alternatively not running the polishing system at the same time as the engine is not a bad precaution even if the polishing system has its own pick-up.

Even if the polishing system is only running a few hours a day it is filtering the entire tank contents on a regular basis, which will help eliminate the particulate matter that sticks to the bottom and sides of the tank, as well as combined with water promotes the development of the dreaded diesel bug problem. In rough sailing conditions, at a rolly anchorage, or after refueling are the times when the polishing is most effective so I try to run the polishing continuously in these circumstances.

[s/v Jedi]

Soltron looks the same as Startron so maybe it is.

I checked the tests again and found a new one where the combi of Biobor JF plus Startron outperforms anything.

The article also has links to the other, older tests (Corrosion test).

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sys...-vs-gum-sludge

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It’s normal on this forum to disagree with people, but in this case please explain what a biocide does to help when there are no bacteria yet? Prettysure it is zero effect. Not so for enzyme based like Startron, which keeps working incl. eliminating moisture. This has all been tested and published... in Practical Sailor iirc.

I agree with the use of "conditioners" as a prophylactic. If you use a condom you don't need to worry about an abortion.....

[CarlF]

Thanks to Nick for his experience.

I started using Biobar Jr in my last boat where the PO had allowed bad fouling to develop in the Caribbean. With the new boat I kept up the Biobar (just a maintenance does) for good karma more than as a strategy. I think I'll now add the Startron as a combination.

My dual Racor 500 is set up to either be a polisher or go to the engines. For polishing a few valves and a Walbro pump sends the fuel back to the tank without going through the engine. This has worked out very well for occasional polishing. I generally polish with one side of the dual Racor and run off the other side. Obviously, I have to polish at anchor or a dock.

I use 2 micron elements in the Racor 500 for both polishing and operation. I replace the fuel filter at the 250 hour oil change. I had expected frequent changes but this hasn't been the case with the US and Bahamas fuel I take on - in the last five years and 2000 hours I haven't once had to change the Racor early. A pressure gauge on the Racor confirms that there's no significant pressure. I expect this is because the Racor 500 is rated for 60 gal/hr. I use 2 gal/hr so 250 hours means an element has only filtered 500 gallons before it is changed. Not much.

If I was going to the 3rd world, I'd carry some 30 micron elements to deal with dirtier fuel than I get in the US/Bahamas

And the 2 micron element has had the side benefit that Nick mentions that I rarely have to change the expensive Yanmar on-engine filter that is messy and difficult to change compared to the Racor.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It’s normal on this forum to disagree with people, but in this case please explain what a biocide does to help when there are no bacteria yet? Prettysure it is zero effect. Not so for enzyme based like Startron, which keeps working incl. eliminating moisture. This has all been tested and published... in Practical Sailor iirc.

How do you know there is no bacteria? Not being sarcastic, but where do you think it comes from? Usually it’s in the fuel you take aboard, it’s not rare at all, but if you add 20 gls of infected fuel to your tank, guess what you will soon have a bug problem, but if you add biocide, then you won’t as it will kill what’s there before it can establish a sessile colony.
They can filter the fuel very well, but you can’t filter out bacteria, not even with a 2 micron filter, because bacteria is smaller than that.

How does Startron or any other product “get rid” of water? Where does it go? I can tell you most often it’s alcohol and alcohol and water mix and the mix will mix with fuel, so it wasn't “gotten rid” of it was merely emulsified.

There are filters that will get rid of water, even emulsified or dissolved water, they are quite large though and I have never seen one in the marine world. They have a water absorbing product in them and when fuel is passed though them, they will dry the fuel.

“Bugs” are not rare at all, in fact we fought them in the Military for years and found out that it was actually coming from the Alberta Products Pipe Line, and that “species” of bugs caused what became known as APPL jelly, a play on words cause they did look like Apple jelly. APPL was for Alberta Products Pipe Line, it was complex as it was bugs but only when mixed with an anti-icing product did the bugs grow, and it was only in fuel that came from that pipeline, as that pipeline was infected.


The reason all Valv etc fuel has a biocide added to it before it’s sold is to inhibit “bugs” growth to start with,

If you wait until you have an infection to treat, then you waited too long, you have a mess to clean up.

It is in effect very much like spraying for roaches, if you wait until you see roaches, you have a lot of them, but if you spray on schedule, you never will have roaches.

Adding biocide with every fill up, kills any bugs that may be in the fuel you just bought.

[RaymondR]

Adding biocide with every fill up, kills any bugs that may be in the fuel you just bought.

It waits in ambush for the little buggers.

[s/v Jedi]

It’s true that biocide kills the bacteria even though there may not be any bacteria. So does Startron, but Startron also cleans the tank, eliminates water which is what the bacteria need to exist and it prevents tank corrosion. Also, when burned in the engine, it does not leave ash like biocide which is detrimental to the engine, especially in large doses, while an engine can run cleanly on Startron.

Brute force should not be used all the time. There is no one solution to every problem, it is not that simple.

About water in the tank from condensation: that has been tested as well and contrary to belief, it is minimal. Such facts as well as the tests are available on-line. I see no value in arguing about Startron being effective against water in the tank or not when the evidence is right there. Practical Sailor is a reliable source so take the argument to them instead... but better support your claim with evidence like they do

[a64pilot]

Any ash left from 1/2 oz of biocide per 40 gls of fuel I can deal with as it’s got to be a minuscule amount.
No one said don’t use Startron if you use a biocide, I use both and do so based on PS’s article saying it helped prevent corrosion in fuel tanks.
This is my bottle of Startron, and nowhere on it that I can see does it claim to be a biocide.
It treats a 1,000 gls of fuel too so it’s not like you have buy and carry gallons of these products, one bottle of each will last for several years.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Any ash left from 1/2 oz of biocide per 40 gls of fuel I can deal with as it’s got to be a minuscule amount.
No one said don’t use Startron if you use a biocide, I use both and do so based on PS’s article saying it helped prevent corrosion in fuel tanks.
This is my bottle of Startron, and nowhere on it that I can see does it claim to be a biocide.
It treats a 1,000 gls of fuel too so it’s not like you have buy and carry gallons of these products, one bottle of each will last for several years.

The miscommunication is remarkable I don’t think I wrote that Startron is a biocide... I wrote that Startron is a good product to protect the fuel and tank when there is no bacteria infestation (vs using biocide preemptive) because it will not only kill bacteria but also decompose them as well as eliminate water (i.e. prevents corrosion). Is biocide a better killer? Yeah, it’s poison! That is it’s role when combined with Startron during an infestation. But when there are no bacteria or very few bacteria, Startron does a better job. You can add Biobor JF at that time, but it’s just a waste of money because it does absolutely nothing.

I write all this from the POV that I have a diesel polishing system... if I would not be able to polish my fuel, I may add a biocide as well because you don’t know what’s going on in the tank.

[Bill O]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Any ash left from 1/2 oz of biocide per 40 gls of fuel I can deal with as it’s got to be a minuscule amount.
No one said don’t use Startron if you use a biocide, I use both and do so based on PS’s article saying it helped prevent corrosion in fuel tanks.
This is my bottle of Startron, and nowhere on it that I can see does it claim to be a biocide.
It treats a 1,000 gls of fuel too so it’s not like you have buy and carry gallons of these products, one bottle of each will last for several years.

Just a FYI, the Star tron is on sale at WM now and purchased the 16 oz. diesel treatment bottle for $20.99. (slightly cheaper than amazon)