Custom built drawer refrigerator

[Three Sisters]

Without a doubt your frustation extends into our sailboat search as well. When looking at your photo, the first option that comes to mind is to switch out the useless(imo) double sink and put the refigerator/freezer in that spot, gaining counterspace as well. Possibly a commercial stainless steel single basin deep sink to the left of the equally useless stove/oven.

What is left would be matching trim and counter surfaces. If it were to appear as a cob job then everything would be torn out and start over.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by Three Sisters

Attachment 161942

Without a doubt your frustation extends into our sailboat search as well. When looking at your photo, the first option that comes to mind is to switch out the useless(imo) double sink and put the refigerator/freezer in that spot, gaining counterspace as well. Possibly a commercial stainless steel single basin deep sink to the left of the equally useless stove/oven.

What is left would be matching trim and counter surfaces. If it were to appear as a cob job then everything would be torn out and start over.

Useless stove / oven? Typically you like to see the sink as close to the centerline of the boat as possible. Double sink being useless, I don't necessarily disagree with you there, it is nice for doing dishes though, when you don't have a dishwasher.

[Richard Kollmann]

I disagree, drilling holes and filling air spaces behind present insulation with spray foam is a great way to improve present box's insulation. This method of adding spray foam R value has been used for more than twenty years. If spray foam can only be added to one or two of a six sided box performance will be improved.

Warning urethane closed cell high R value spray foam will continue to expand for 24 hours. All sides inside and outside box must be braced to prevent adjacent material and walls from expansion distortion. Sometimes a dam made from thick cardboard is needed to keep liquid foam going where it is not needed like the bilge.

To fill the air space between box and hull a length of ¼ inch copper tubing will extend spray nozzle to the far corner. Be careful pressure will blow the extension tube off if not anchored well.

Refrigerator and freezer draws are strictly experimental on a sailboat.

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

I disagree, drilling holes and filling air spaces behind present insulation with spray foam is a great way to improve present box's insulation. This method of adding spray foam R value has been used for more than twenty years. If spray foam can only be added to one or two of a six sided box performance will be improved.

Warning urethane closed cell high R value spray foam will continue to expand for 24 hours. All sides inside and outside box must be braced to prevent adjacent material and walls from expansion distortion. Sometimes a dam made from thick cardboard is needed to keep liquid foam going where it is not needed like the bilge.

To fill the air space between box and hull a length of ¼ inch copper tubing will extend spray nozzle to the far corner. Be careful pressure will blow the extension tube off if not anchored well.

Refrigerator and freezer draws are strictly experimental on a sailboat.

Hi Richard

I think he was talkking about the single part stuff , like gap filler . I totally agree with you on the two part foam , but as you said , watch the expansion . Learned this the hard way . What a mess .

Regards John

[sailingunity]

I'm honored that refrigeration legends such as yourselves would come to comment on my thread!

The previous owner did 2 part expanding foam on two sides and the bottom. The back of the box is rather messily fiberglassed to the hull and so I'm afraid there are going to be many pockets behind it, removing it would be the only way to really insulate back there. I know its not insulated on the bulkhead side, because I can see condensation on the other side of the bulkhead! The fridge butts to it, so again, the only way to insulate there is to remove and rebuild the box smaller on that side (or add insulation to the inside, I guess). I think the air gap at the back is going to necessitate pulling it anyway, though. I'll try to get a picture of what it looks like back there next time I'm out.

[Richard Kollmann]

John, I have never used two part or joint filler. I have used Home Depot urethane R7 expanding spray foam. In 2000 my web page Kollmann Marine is still my position on boat refrigerator insulation.
Most people misunderstand that insulation that keeps heat in and cold outside may not be desirable in marine refrigeration insulation damp environments. Air expansion and contraction in and out of insulation as compressor cycles allows air spaces in insulation to collect heat conducting moisture in insulation open cells.

[john61ct]

Richard, I can't get to your site ATM

But looking at HD's all I see are 2-part sprays, and gap filler like Loctite and Great Stuff.

Could you specify or link to the product(s) you recommend?

Also, (for anyone) my understanding is when different densities are available in closed-cell urethane, the higher the density the greater the R-value.

I see with the pourable, as opposed to spray packs, they often don't give R-values at all.

[Maka]

I made 5 wire "Cages" that drop down into my DEEP top loading fridge.
Ea cage goes from top to bottom, and custom fits my fride box size / shape.
I pull a cage up and remove or add contents as needed.
No more bending over and reaching for stuff in the bottom.

[ironvalleyfab]

looks like a sensible solution to me if you did it so the door was separate from the drawer you should be able to get good r value. just ensure the inner liner of the fridge has a thermal break by using a low conductive material between the inner and outer shells. I used to manufacture and service custom food service drawer and door coolers/freezers and this was always the greatest loss area. we used strips of uhmw plastic about 5mm thick

[billgewater]

I have recent experience with a a freezer/fridge system that involved a pull out bottom drawer. The unit was on another boat, not mine.
During design considerations there was much discussion over sealing which was probably not successfully resolved, although the owner has come to terms with the extra time and short cycles required. Temperature site monitoring confirmed "coolth" losses at nearly every seal area.

The drawer assembly for good roller tracks took up space and were difficult to align. When this was resolved the mass of frozen material was considerable causing further high loading on the slide out assembly.
The front to back dimension of the pull out freezer section was about 70 cm (about 27 inches). Quite large really.
All this was experienced in the marina. However, at sea, major problems arose..
On one tack, the lady of the boat could not pull out the drawer due to the heeling. On the other tack, it was near impossible to control its rapid outward movement. (Once unlocked) Closing it on this tack was very difficult due to the varying inclination. It took two people to close it.
On returning to the marina, the owner designed and built a single screw threaded shaft driver assembly at the base that powered the drawer out and back in. It was an engineering nightmare IMHO. It was noisy and really required two matching drives to prevent imbalances. Power supplies, micro switches, adjustment devices etc.

There were very considerable losses in freezer volume as the two independent sections both required base insulation (deeper for the bottom freezer pullout drawer). The eutectic tank was built underneath the higher fridge section fridge. The top was accessed from the bench top. Space also had to be provided for the mounting and access to the drive mechanism that pushed the bottom drawer in and out.

Although it may be irrelevant, a drawer assembly instantly limits the height of any stuff. A large frozen turkey may just not fit whereas in a deep standard assembly you could stack a few turkeys on top of each other. (Substitute whatever for turkeys. Turkeys are not a big deal in Aus. It is a term used for politicians.)

Another odd attempt to retain use of bench surface space involved using swing out assemblies. With long horizontal hinges near the sole. The particular boat had two swing out sections (beside each other). One for the freezer and one for the fridge. From recall, both had very substantial insulated front sections and much thinner side sections but I'm not certain about this. The bulk of the insulation was still built in. I do recall that the back of each section that swung out was metal mesh which meant of course that the food etc. did come forward as the section swung out. They had small metal mesh shelves that could be re positioned at the back to suit different food stacking requirejments.
Sealing was carefully addressed particularly at the base near the hinges.
This arrangement would mean that the center of gravity of the assembly would not move as far as a drawer arrangement would cause. For cleaning etc., the hinge arrangement allowed for the two sections to be completely removed independently allowing really open front access to the innards of the freezer/fridge volume. The eutectic tank surrounded the back top and one end of the freezer volume.
The swing out extent was limited by attached twine.
I presume it worked as I did not hear any negative comments from the owner.
It was still a top down access, but it certainly seemed easier than the normal "hang upside down" arrangement found on many boats.
Food for thought. But I certainly would not encourage the slide-out-drawer assembly. Too many problems.

[Matt Johnson]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

I'm honored that refrigeration legends such as yourselves would come to comment on my thread!

The previous owner did 2 part expanding foam on two sides and the bottom. The back of the box is rather messily fiberglassed to the hull and so I'm afraid there are going to be many pockets behind it, removing it would be the only way to really insulate back there. I know its not insulated on the bulkhead side, because I can see condensation on the other side of the bulkhead! The fridge butts to it, so again, the only way to insulate there is to remove and rebuild the box smaller on that side (or add insulation to the inside, I guess). I think the air gap at the back is going to necessitate pulling it anyway, though. I'll try to get a picture of what it looks like back there next time I'm out.

Edit- Here is a blog post about it:

http://www.mjsailing.com/projects/re...on-spray-foam/



Is there no space between the fridge and hull? If it's just hard to access, when we put two part spray foam in our old fridge, we drilled though the fiberglass fridge linear in the bottom, mid point and top (inside the fridge)... three rows on each side. I then injected foam from the bottom until it came out the mid hole, mid hole until it came out the top, and then a bit more in the top hole. Lastly, the fiberglass linear holes were filled with colloidal silica thickened epoxy and all was good.

Matt

[nwdiver]

Yeh, as said above, put in a front opening door, much easier and you won't lose volume.....and use only as a refrigerator

And add a small portable freezer under a bench somewhere.....

Probably cost less and be easier.....

[deltaten]

I imagine an Engle cooler on one of those slide out drawer shelves, with a nice matching cabinet front; or the custom equivalent. Mounted center line,of course. I'd have it so if it were not for that danged motor in the way!

[Typhoon]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

John, I have never used two part or joint filler. I have used Home Depot urethane R7 expanding spray foam. In 2000 my web page Kollmann Marine is still my position on boat refrigerator insulation.
Most people misunderstand that insulation that keeps heat in and cold outside may not be desirable in marine refrigeration insulation damp environments. Air expansion and contraction in and out of insulation as compressor cycles allows air spaces in insulation to collect heat conducting moisture in insulation open cells.

Hi Richard

Maybe we can't get the stuff you specified up here in Canada.

Is this the stuff you are talking about.

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/cat...nsulation.html

One is a two part foam and the other is just a gap filler. Does not work well behind a liner.

Regards John.

[jhulmer]

Originally Posted by sailingunity

Nearly every counter top in my galley has some kind of opening top, which makes meal prep difficult. Need a stick of butter? Clear the fridge top. Also, our 10 cu ft fridge is pretty deep (read: body halfway in to get something out of the bottom), and don't get me started on how well organized it is (not). I realize this is how most boats are set up, but I'm trying to find ways to make life easy for the admiral. I know we'll lose some cu. ft., but I think it will be more organized.

I've attached an image of the galley, and a schematic of the current configuration.

I got to thinking about putting in a drawer fridge, but most of them that fit width and height wise are too deep at the bottom due to the curve of the hull. So now I'm thinking about custom building my own. I already have a compressor and cold plates, I can just relocate them. It doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult, probably the hardest part would be figuring out the sealing and latching mechanism.

I'm guessing for the main body of the fridge, that I could just build a fiberglass box, with an opening on the front and reinforcements on the sides where the slides will be mounted. I might even be able to just cut the front out of the box I have and re-use it somehow? Have a machine shop bend up some drawers for me? Does this sound crazy? Should I stop before I lose it???

I like the KISS (keep it simple silly) principle.

Why not just add a foldup countertop onto the front of the frig/freezer to accommodate the food prep and give you a place to move things to if needed? It would allow access to the frig/freezer albeit a little harder to access. But, as has been suggested, you could add baskets and/or plastic storage boxes to make it easier to pull things out.