Custom Aluminum Valencin 39 Refit

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by minaret

Hydronics are substantially more efficient, but for me one of the biggest selling points is that forced air systems are LOUD.

You are correct about Webasto and Espar, they are loud. Wallas is very quiet though, the quietest marine forced air available. It is the only one of the three designed exclusively for marine applications from the beginning.

[xslim]

The PO left lot of stuff. Most of it is in the back locker, very dirty and oily. But some is in the bags. One of it is a winter cover in 2 parts.
As I have a leaking stantion and no idea how to easy and fast to fix it (it was welded into aluminum but seems have a crack), I went yesterday to put on a back side of winter cover. It covers the boat all the way including the stantions, so should prevent rain and water. I also hope it will make an inside temperature warmer.
While putting it on I realized that the main sail should go off the boom. Otherwise the cover is not properly fitting near the mast. Well, one of the next projects for a weekend.

Speaking about heating, do you keep your heating running while you are not on the boat? Do you monitor it somehow? I guess I would be OK leaving the hydronic heater over night, but not sure about Reflex stove.

I'm gonna look more if I can easily fit the Reflex. I don't want to drill the hull right now so the only option is looking if I can route the chimney thru the air vent.
About the noise of the heater - I have a big aft locker (not watertight yet), so I could fit it there.

[LouTai]

Refleks can be on, days weeks or months. It is also approved for commercial use. It is important to follow the installation instructions found from their home page. I don´think routing quite hot chimney through existing went is safe unless the through out hole is quite large and material near is heat resistant / isolated well. Usually the specific deck through hull is used.
The same applies to exhaust of all heaters. For Refleks it is good idea to put the flue gas damper to as straight as possible and long enough chimney.
Also for sailing boat installation stove should be as middle as possible and fuel regulator can be installed "gimballed" to improve heeling resistance.
In case the heater installation right now among all the other things seems too much and you have electricity available 24h./day you could put couple of the oil filled electric radiators temporarily (they should not cost much).

[xslim]

Originally Posted by LouTai

I don´think routing quite hot chimney through existing went is safe unless the through out hole is quite large and material near is heat resistant / isolated well. Usually the specific deck through hull is used.
The same applies to exhaust of all heaters. For Refleks it is good idea to put the flue gas damper to as straight as possible and long enough chimney.

The problem I see - my bulkhead is a almost meter forward from the mast. (The mast support is at the end of the table). And if I will put the exhaust straight up the jib will constantly banging on it (I have a self tacking Jib). Do you know if it possible to route the chimney half meter to the side? Than I can make a hole near the mast...

Originally Posted by LouTai

In case the heater installation right now among all the other things seems too much and you have electricity available 24h./day you could put couple of the oil filled electric radiators temporarily (they should not cost much).

For now (and few more winters) I'm in marina and there is electricity. I already plugged the 2kW oil filled heater that works, the only thing I'm not sure if I can leave it for few days without checking on it. And the electricity cost is 35 euro cents per kW.

[LouTai]

It is no problem to move it a bit to side - or any direction, only avoid tight bends and ensure chimney is long enough. Isolated(double) chimney usually improves burning especially in gusts. You have almost same distance between mast support and bulkhead as I. I turned the stove "around" =exhaust fases back towards mast support so I could easily route chimney right front of mast -see picture. Regulator support fixed to industrial trolley-wheel base is visible in picture. The oil filled heaters normally have overheating protection built in -is so they should be quite safe. On other hand with 2kw or more you will quite quickly raise temperature enough for working, except warming surfaces for paint/filler etc. aply and drying.

[hurricanehole]

Great Boat. Congrads. My vote is for attaching pics to your posts. Thanks for including us in your project.

[minaret]

Originally Posted by mitiempo

You are correct about Webasto and Espar, they are loud. Wallas is very quiet though, the quietest marine forced air available. It is the only one of the three designed exclusively for marine applications from the beginning.

Wallas is certainly quieter than the competing forced air systems, but not even close to high end hydronics like Olympia. To tell if my system is on, you have to go outside the boat and feel the exhaust coming out of the vent.

[witzgall]

I work as the service manager of a yacht servicing company. We sell, service and install both Webasto and Espar. For that size boat, I would suggest you look at the Espar Mii series, either the 8kw or 10kw. They are very efficient, and have dual glow pins that give redundancy and thus extend the service interval. If you are spending extended time on the boat in cold conditions, hydronic is the best way to go. The heating will be more even, the runs for the hose is easier then duct, and they are quieter in the cabin. Using hoses you typicall have more options on where to put the heat. It will cost more, but if you live aboard full time, it is well worth it if you can budget for the $$$.

Note that most heaters these days specify their output using the initial, only on run-up power. Once up to temp, they fall back to a lower kw/btu rating for the duration of the run time. This allows them to come up to temp more quickly.

Chris

[xslim]

Hey Chris!
Thank you for reply!

The internal space of a boat is like 35ft. Low ceilings, tight spaces.
I initially planned a hydronic heater of 3-4kW. Do you think more powerfull will be better ?
About hoses and radiators - would hoses better than thin (copper) pipes?
What kind of small not fan radiators would you recommend?

Thank you!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[witzgall]

To calculate the theoretical heating needs in BTUs, multiply the cubic feet in each space to be heated by 15. This is a good number for anything that is not Florida or the much colder spots in the north. If you are going to be in the northern latitudes, make that number perhaps 17.
You want to use good quality double wall water hose, the best you can get that is not wire reinforced.

As far as the space heaters, I am not sure what is available in the NL. We use ones that are made in the US/Canada. You want ones that use 12v powered axial (computer) fans, not squirrel fans - those are for defrosters etc. The air does not have to blow very hard.

Chris

[xslim]

Well i calculated 6000 BTU for main cabin or around 10000 BTU for all boat.
I'm looking on Webasto Thermo Top C/E or 90S. Any recommendation?


Taras

[mitiempo]

Originally Posted by xslim

About hoses and radiators - would hoses better than thin (copper) pipes?
What kind of small not fan radiators would you recommend?

A radiator needs a fan unless it is quite large. The hose to use is designated as heater hose.

[LouTai]

These are more efficient than most -if not all earlier fanless radiators: Element VeHeat 1000 mm ø 22 mm
The pages are in Swedish but I quess most of the quys working there write an speak english -or maybe google finds producer/seller more near you, if they do not know or tell.
Do not put copper pipes to aluminium vessel.
An other thing, if you need to renew thru hull -or just about any valves you want to be proper ones, Trudesing valves and fittings are good for alu-boat.

[HappyMdRSailor]

Welcome to the ownership world xslim !

I'm following along...

[Pinical]

Nice boat! Before lying in Compagnieshaven Enkhuizen?

In 35-45 ft boat an EVO top etc is most cost efficiënt and easy to mount. And safe to use. Even in Holland it's enough for the coldest nights. And you already have the fueltank. Once underway you don't want to lose valuable space. And, it can double as a vent in hot climates! We used that a lot.
Power in A'dam Marina is new and hasslefree: you can leave it on (on thermostat) for weeks.

Dashew has 3 very informative books on cruising, with lots of info on alu boats and technical issues. Onmisbaar! I might have a digital copy.

Good luck with the jobs!


Jan Gerrit
s/y Pinical
NL