Crane Dropped My O'day 39

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by tsl

... A few questions?
Is leaving the bolts in place and using self tapping stainless screws to mount the toe-rail at 4" a viable alternative? It's been suggested by one local source...

NO, you cannot fasten a toe-rail with screws. They MUST be through bolted.
See the Rig-Rite installation drawings.

Custom & One-Off Toe-Rails:
➥ Crest Aluminum Marine Extrusions - Toerail & T Track

[TabbyCat]

What are my alternatives. The Crane company is a small local firm. I'd rather not force them to file an insurance claim.

Everyone gave good advice to you here. The only thing I'll emphasize is that the clock is ticking. All insurance polices (yours and the crane operators) have time limits for filing claims - usually 30-60 days. (You should file a "report of occurrence" with your current insurance agent - not a claim. That starts a dated record - it puts them on notice that it could turn into a claim if you get nowhere with the crane operator, but your agent doesn't have to turn it into the insurance company until you direct them to. In my experience, damages always turn out to be more significant than you originally expected. Sounds like someone should be paying for a whole new toe rail if it can't be easily repaired and restored to the condition it was before the incident.

[osirissail]

Down in Grenada during Hurricane Ivan we had a lot of boats fall out of their jackstands and land on their sides. More than a few of the boats were total losses. Others required major repairs often exceeding the value of the boat.
- - In a "dropped boat" situation what you should look for - besides exterior cracks or spider cracking patterns - is inside the boat. Open up and gain access to every transverse bulkhead and look at the "tabbing." Also along the cabin sole (floor) for cracked or buckled tabbing. The FRG hull will flex upon any collision such as impacting a cradle support. But the bulkheads, furniture and sole will be "pushed" by the flexing hull and most often broken free or fractured where it joins with the hull.
- - I have seen boats with seemingly "fine" hull surface and then looked closely inside to see the whole inside of the vessel shifted inches away from where things should be located.
- - If I remember correctly there was a hurricane damaged boat that was lost off Bermuda because the bulkheads and other interior supports were not repaired and re-attached to the hull. A sailboat is just not the hull, it is also the interior supporting structure of bulkheads/stringers/thwarts and other items that keep the hull in the proper shape when underway. If these are damaged you are looking at major expensive repairs and/or constructive loss of the vessel if it is insured.

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by osirissail

Down in Grenada during Hurricane Ivan we had a lot of boats fall out of their jackstands and land on their sides. More than a few of the boats were total losses. Others required major repairs often exceeding the value of the boat.

My worse fears, being on the hard most of the time. It's the other guys boat I worry about.

Back to the subject!
.

[tsl]

Thanks for the input.
I'm not aware how other boats are constructed but this boat has a pin that runs through the mast and sits across the Mast deck plate. It prevents the deck from deforming upward. The mast is not stepped so this pin was not in when the boat was dropped. Therefore the forward (bulkhead) door and forward head door is way out alignment. Will not close. I'm not terribly worried about it since I'm not signing off until everything is true and square. (not by planing or re cutting the doors).
We (insurance co)meet with the boat yard next week. It looks gaining access for inspection is will likely be the major cost of the repair outside the toe rail. The O'day 39 has what they called a unified grid pan. It's the structural back bone. It must be completely inspected. Right?
I'm very fortunate I had the boat surveyed 10 days before it was dropped. Not a mention of a crack or alignment problem in the survey report.

[tsl]

go here for the complete update on the work being done on the boat.O'day 39 project boat - Page 6 - SailboatOwners.com

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by tsl

go here for the complete update on the work being done on the boat.O'day 39 project boat - Page 6 - SailboatOwners.com

Looks like nice work -- but looking at the pictures I think you have a major problem in that forward holding tank installation:
1) The waste will slosh around and flow into the vent. If the vent allows downward flow it must not have a dip in the hose that can trap effluent. It will block the free flow of air and the tank will become anaerobic. The blockage will also harden eventually.
2) You have a vent filter that will become clogged with crap. Same result as in #1. Vent filters should be exisit (nor are they needed) in a well designed system. If you get stink, the solution is to increase tank ventilation by adding another vent if needed, or enlarging it, not blocking it.

When (not if) you get holding tank odor you should get rid of those vent filters. Holding tanks stink more when they become anaerobic -- you need to improve air circulation to keep the stink under control.

Get Peggie Hall's book "Get Rid of Boat Odors" she explains this in detail.

[tsl]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Looks like nice work -- but looking at the pictures I think you have a major problem in that forward holding tank installation:
1) The waste will slosh around and flow into the vent. If the vent allows downward flow it must not have a dip in the hose that can trap effluent. It will block the free flow of air and the tank will become anaerobic. The blockage will also harden eventually.
2) You have a vent filter that will become clogged with crap. Same result as in #1. Vent filters should be exisit (nor are they needed) in a well designed system. If you get stink, the solution is to increase tank ventilation by adding another vent if needed, or enlarging it, not blocking it.

When (not if) you get holding tank odor you should get rid of those vent filters. Holding tanks stink more when they become anaerobic -- you need to improve air circulation to keep the stink under control.

Get Peggie Hall's book "Get Rid of Boat Odors" she explains this in detail.

Great point about the dip in the line. I'll make a quick adjustment or better yet place the filter a few feet higher well out of danger. As for improved venting. Can't be done. Vent line is about 12 ft. long. Not interested in running it through the v-birth living space.

My back-up is a bubbler system is if the filter does not work. Any thoughts on that?

Got Peggies book. Lots of help.

Thanks for the help.

[SailFastTri]

No experience with a bubbler system. But I can tell you for sure that your vent is not adequate if it has a filter, and not adequate if it's 12 feet long (unless it's MUCH bigger diameter).

How would your bubbler system work? How would it be powered? Would you be pumping in fesh air?

[SailFastTri]

I noticed you're planning to use Poly Glo on the deck. Bad idea.

1) It will be too slippery (safety hazard)
2) It will not hold up well.
3) Given #2, it will become yet another maintenance item

If the gelcoat is too far gone to compound -- use paint.

(I have used Poly Glo on my topsides for two years and stripped it the third year. I would never use it again.)

[tsl]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

No experience with a bubbler system. But I can tell you for sure that your vent is not adequate if it has a filter, and not adequate if it's 12 feet long (unless it's MUCH bigger diameter).

How would your bubbler system work? How would it be powered? Would you be pumping in fesh air?

I have given up on an areobic system. Just no way of venting it properly.
Anarobic, The vent filter blocks the odor. It's the common system used in RV's . You hit on the down side. You must be certain the filter does not get plugged. It's something I'll need to live with.


Deck, I tested , I agree too slippery. Will paint the non-skid.

[delmarrey]

Why have a vent line so long. Just drill a hole just below the hull/deck joint and install one right above or close to right above the tank.

[tsl]

My apologies for not putting this thread to bed. A fellow O'day owner contacted me wondering if I was either at the bottom of the ocean or still battling insurance companies in court.
Happily, everything worked out well. Maybe I was bit lucky.
The two cracks forward of the keel are well-documented problems with the Oday 39 built in 82 and 83. They used woven roving (like most boat builders) and it did not conform to the shape of the recess in the hull to accept the keel. The resulting fold slowly opens up and allows water to seep in. Dropping the boat may have opened it up bit more but from photos of the crack on other 39's I see no difference. Complete inspection of the boat after the bottom paint was removed and then again once the boat was splashed and rigged showed no damage other than the damage to the toe rail from the falling spreader bar. I recall settling the issue for $11,000 plus the cost of blasting the hull to remove the bottom paint and the inspections by the boatyard. The $11,000 covered the new shaft and machining new toe rail and rub rail.
I could have claimed a complete loss as my attorney and insurance agent both felt that the crane company would never allow this to go to court. Once the boatyard went over the boat completely and discussed their findings with me, I decided to keep the boat and the cash as I was now sitting with boat completely inspected with its bottom blasted and procedure laid out to repair the cracks that were inherent to the make model and year and plans to machine new toe rails for the 30-year-old boat.
From that point on I got very lucky. This thread got the attention of another O'day 39 owner who happened to own the boat one hull number from mine. They likely sat side by side on the factory floor. This owner owned the boat from day one and was a mechanic for a boatyard out east. The boat had the same two cracks and together, with my yard, we set-up a procedure to repair them. Both boats were repaired by grinding away the fold from above and then feather back about a foot and about an inch was removed from the bottom side and also feathered back. We used West system epoxy and stitched and mat glass for the build up. I consider the problem completely resolved as my partner sailed his boat across the Atlantic and I sailed across Lake Superior from north to south and then west to east with no sign of the crack returning. I also got lucky with the toe rail, Crest aluminum now makes the exact replacement for both the toe rail and rub rail at a fraction of the cost to machine something. I also took the advice above about vent line and have never had an issue with holding tank odor. Peggy's book is great.
All in all, it was quite a windfall which quickly went into upgrades for the engine, new transmission, shaft, cutlass bearings pss seals etc. It was clear from the badly oblonged cutlass bearing that the shaft had been bent for some time. Had this been an $100,000 boat, I'd likely handled it differently but I'm glad I followed the path I did.

[JPA Cate]

Good on ya for getting back on this, tsl, and excellent that it has worked out well for you. It was looking pretty dire for a while.

Ann

[Three Sisters]

Originally Posted by tsl

Fortunately it was only about a foot and it landed back on the trailer. The suspension and bracing saved her.
A lifting strap tore and the spreader bar (12' X 16" I-beam) came crashing down on my toe rail. It's badly mangled.
My question: How do I find a replacement. I'm in contact with Rig Rite looking for Goiot matches. Things are not looking good.

What are my alternatives. The Crane company is a small local firm. I'd rather not force them to file an insurance claim.

I'll have the prop shaft inspected and the engine re-aligned once I get it back into the water. Anything else I should be looking at?

Another source to check
A62-0009: 1-9/16’’ x 1-1/2’’ Aluminum Sailboat Toe Rail | TACO Marine