Crane Dropped My O'day 39

[imagine2frolic]

Don't live to regret your kind thoughts. Get surveyors, and insurance involved immediatley, or you will have noone to blame, but yourself with problems in the future.........i2f

[ollie820]

You can try this site for O'day parts. This guy purchased the molds and leftover parts when O'day shut down.

D & R Marine

[ozskipper]

Call your insurance company before you do anything. I am sure you will find , written in your fine print, that you are obliged to tell them of any misshaps or events that may occur regardless of who is at fault.

Sadly for the little crane company, its thier job to make sure your boat is seaworthy and they should be up fo all costs, if that means making a claim on thier own insurance so be it. After all, thats why they have insurance in place.

Cheers
Oz

[capt_douglas]

I think making full restitution and repair are the yards responsibility. I'd get an immediate survey just to make sure nothing hidden surfaces down the track. I'd also be on the yards/crane operators insurance company. And I'd notify your insurance company.

Stuff like this happens but it's not your responsibility to make full and complete repairs. That's why yards and crane operators have insurance. They did have insurance, didn't they?

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by tsl

Thanks for the advise. It's to early for the surveyor. I must first remove 8 layers of bottom paint. Maybe even pull the keel. The boat will be on the hard for at least two years while I repair a few soft spots in the deck refinish the interior ETC.. The last thing I want is a Surveyor saying he sees no damage and then find all sorts of problems when the boat is in the water. The boat was just surveyed prior to being purchased and moved here. The crane company knows that they may end up with a sailboat, my attorney has made that clear. He's got the CYA thing covered. snip

You're getting great advice in this thread and you're not even listening. You couldn't be more wrong.

A surveyor doesn't need you to remove bottom paint. You MUST leave the boat alone until it is surveyed. As soon as you do ANY work on your boat (without establishing its condition as of the time of accident) the crane company's insurance lawyer will do a little jig, because you will have won indemnification for his client... they will claim the damage happened later.

You say you have a recent survey? Great!!! That is impartial expert evidence of the condition prior to accident. Now you need one immediately following, to compare to that baseline BEFORE you do anything else to alter the condition of the boat. If there is damage it will then be clearly documented in an objective manner that can be judged in court.

If your lawyer isn't saying the same thing get yourself another lawyer. He's an idiot.

[gulfstar37]

We unfortunatlly had a yard pull our boat several years back and their strap also broke dropping the stern about a foot in the water. Soft landing. The yard manager came over following the incident and offered to take care of everything if needed. I had my, note my, surveyor, by the way the yard paid his bill, come over and spent 6 hours going through everything paying special attention to the rig and bulkhead tabbing. Fortunatly he found nothing but cosmetic items which the yard took care of immediately. This is a good yard that keeps their equipment very well maintained. I'm glad I did not have to go through the hassle of getting serious restitution. The point is they were good enough to offer up front in writing to make things right which I appreciated. I also took photos of the failed strap, some scuff marks and anything else I thought might be needed if it came to that. I also wrote down my recolction of the incident and gave the yard manager a copy of everything. Again the yard offered up to make things right.

Following the survey the surveyer told me some horror stories about similiar incidents he had experience with that went both ways of no problems to people ending up paying the whole tab even one the yard operator sued the boat owner by changing the story around saying the boat owner told him how to rig the boat for the lift.

Its alway great to be the nice guy but you know what they say about where nice guys finish.

[tsl]

Originally Posted by gulfstar37

The point is they were good enough to offer up front in writing to make things right which I appreciated.

That is the way we're dealing with it. I just bought the boat for $27,000. No one is going to trial over this. Certainly not me. It was an accident that should have been avoided but I see no need to go after this guy and hurt him. I've gone over the boat inside and out. Checked for stripped out screws at the tabs. I have reserved the right to see how things are when I get a good look at the keel hull joint without all the filler and paint and again when it's in the water with the rig tightened. I placed tape on the turnbuckle threads when we pulled the mast prior to shipping (and dropping) so I'll be watching this closely when we rig her. I just don't want to spend anyone's money on a survey with the stick setting next to the boat.

Let's talk about the toe rail. Am I missing a great opportunity to pull the toe rail inspect and reseal everything?

P.S. I appreciate the comments and do read them. This is a small town where I know who I'm dealing with. It's why I live here and why I'm looking forward to a similar community cruising. Thanks for the tips

[bljones]

You're not a surveyor, so don't do a surveyor's job, and don't let the crane company make their problem your problem. if a tow truck company dropped your $27000 car you'd have a mechanic look at it, right? this is no different.
The survey might cost $500. It will protect you, and it MAY protect the crane company, by PROVING there is no damage. idon't care how small the town is, and how nice everybody is, and how heartwarming the whole scene is...
he dropped your $27000 investment. If the keel is pooched, and dimes to donuts it has definitely transmitted some of the impact to the bilges, possibly cracking the sole, is this friendly owner of a small crane company in a small community going to step up and pay for repairs, or is he going to get a small case of amnesia, requiring you to go to small claims court?

[SvenG]

Originally Posted by tsl

It was an accident that should have been avoided but I see no need to go after this guy and hurt him.

According to you he already hurt your boat. Somehow I get the feeling that we are not getting the whole story but the dead horse beating seems like it should be done pretty soon.



-Sven

[delmarrey]

And DON'T SIGN ANYTHING until you are sure all is well, but with a stipulation if something is found after stripping the bottom paint then it should be considered.

Things that should be checked, if you have them:

Motor mounts was mentioned but a 1' drop should be OK. Boats crest bigger waves then that.

The tabbing of all your bulkheads and interior cabinets.

The bilges- deck braces, keel bolts, thruhulls, chain plates and mast step.

Rudder ands steering system.

And I'm sure others may pipe in........................._/)

[tsl]

Originally Posted by SvenG

According to you he already hurt your boat. Somehow I get the feeling that we are not getting the whole story but the dead horse beating seems like it should be done pretty soon.



-Sven

Your right , your not getting the whole story. I appreciate your comments and interest and have valued all of the comments and suggestions given to other posts.

I just purchased the boat and in this crappy economy was able to get a great deal on it. Good enough to buy the boat well ahead of my cruising plans. The boat is in reasonably good shape. A few soft spots on the deck. I have considerable experience with soggy decks so this is something I can handle easily. I had it surveyed and the surveyor placed a "fair condition" rating on it mainly because it had a leaky holding system that the seller could not deal with. The surveyor priced it at $39,000

My plans are to have it on the hard for two years enough time to clean-up the holding tank situation and to air it out a bit.

The O'day 39 was my dream boat back in the 80's a major factor in my love for sailing. It was important to get good price on the boat since I wanted to bring the boat home to work on it. Timing was good since specialized boat movers have little to do now. Philadelphia to Wisconsin was $3,000. So it seamed the stars were aligned so I went ahead with a purchase agreement and ordered a survey.

The survey cost $780 $20/ft. I had spent about 2 hours on the boat while it was on the hard fully rigged. I had a pretty good idea as to what I was buying. The seller and I talked straight and made a deal. The survey would confirm my findings and help me with the aspects of this much larger boat than what I was accustom to. Most importantly , I was to have this boat on the hard so I wanted to know all items that needed to be repaired.

The survey I received was a joke. He missed many of the items the seller and I had discussed. Water tanks had been left full over the winter so they were deformed and punctured. Sever galling of the toe rail on both sides of the boat from being rubbed against a concrete piling for months. The rub rail /toe rail assembly was completely abraded through to the glass at one point. One stanchion was bent at 10 to 15%. One stanchion was the wrong diameter for the socket so it sat there loose with the life lines holding it in place. The anchor pulpit was badly bent. The seller had to explain how to retrieve the anchor with it. The water in the tanks was black and smelly. Most importantly , the internal pan that runs through the boat was cracked just forward of the keel were it turns vertical supporting the v-birth. One of the most forward keel bolts sounds hollow and completely different than all other bolts when struck. It had been taken up more than the others but did not spin free when I got a wrench on it. My guess the boat ran aground hard. Basically the surveyor did a walk through. I was stuck with a last minute decision to go ahead or walk away. I spent two days on the boat in the water going over everything. I went ahead with the sale.

I'm not looking forward to hiring another surveyor.

I have pointed his errors out and asked for a refund. I won't hear from him.

Now, back to the boat and the drop. The boat was sitting on a custom built air-ride trailer designed specifically for boats. O'day says in the owners manual that 60% of the load should be on the keel. the balance placed on pads located on the bulk-heads. They had a docking drawing and I and the driver followed it precisely.

Immediately after the boat fell I checked the location of the boat in relation to the trailer and pads. The boat had shifted two inches starboard so it likely cam down on the port side with more force. The rudder was clear of any danger. Once we got the boat off the trailer and on its keel (about 8,000 pounds still held by the crane we carefully looked at the shape of the boat before placing the boat stands. The boat looked fine. Since then,everything has been removed from the boat (including the black water system) and access panels removed and taken off. I have crawled in spaces few can fit and can not find any spider cracks or anything radiating from a bulkhead tab. All tabs screws were checked, a few tightened. None stripped out and the crack in the pan forward of the keel looks EXACTLY like it did in my photo taken prior to dropping.

What I have is a bent toe rail and a likely bent propeller shaft. I did not put a run out gage on the shaft but it binds in the same spot as you turn it. Something it did not do weeks earlier.
Now , I'll need a crane to check out the keel. The bottom paint has several coats of paint all alligatored so no hope of detecting a crack there until the paint and filler is removed.

I pay $190 a year for insurance covering the great lakes and east coast north of the hurricane box. I not going to file a claim with my insurance company.

I'm meeting with the crane company today. I'll let you know how it comes out.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by tsl

... Severe galling of the toe rail on both sides of the boat from being rubbed against a concrete piling for months. The rub rail /toe rail assembly was completely abraded through to the glass at one point. One stanchion was bent at 10 to 15%. One stanchion was the wrong diameter for the socket so it sat there loose with the life lines holding it in place. The anchor pulpit was badly bent...

... What I have is a bent toe rail and a likely bent propeller shaft. I did not put a run out gage on the shaft but it binds in the same spot as you turn it. Something it did not do weeks earlier ...

They further damaged your damaged toe rail, and bent your shaft (plus?).
What are they suggesting/offering?

[tsl]

We are thinking along two lines: replacing the entire toe rail or removing the bent and gouged section and have it straightened and then finish (sand, fill and paint) the entire toe rail silver. I'd likely chip in some $$ on the first option after all the toe rail was not in the best of shape. I'd like some input on what value replacing the entire rail has. Sounds good to me but is it? What kind of corrosion problems will I have with a painted toe rail? The engine /shaft alinngment and inspection will be done at the boat yard with alignment done when the boat sits a bit in the water. All agree to that. We will have two inspection sessions. One with the paint removed from the bottom and one after the the mast is stepped and the rigging is tuned. Any larger deviation from the tape marks on the turn bucket screws set's off the alarms. We all agree to that.

[gulfstar37]

Its quite obvious you know what you're doing.

So lets take a look at each option with the toe rail.

1st If the toe rail is extruded aluminnum trying to straighten it out will be very hard and as you pointed out will be gouged up. Filling and then painting aluminum and making it stick is also a hard thing to do. Best advice is to etch with an acid first and immediately paint before the metal starts to oxidize. The oxidazation is what makes the paint flake off. This is why not many mast manufactures paint but ionize them. You also said at least one place the rail is worn through to the glass joint. This will make it hard to find the exact profile to piece toghther and make a joint that will be a weak point.

If you remove the old rail you will probably be able to repair any damage that may be under the rail and rebed properly. Sounds like it may have had a hard life previously. If you replace the rail totally it will match and be much stronger with less joints. However this will cost you much more and may take you longer to do your own work but you said you plan to rebuild for a least 2 years.

Your choice. Good luck!

[hellosailor]

A shock like that can pop bulkhead tabbing, throw off propshaft alignment, or crush the laminate where the pads hit it. And pull out any standing rigging anchors, i.e. turnbuckles. Shock waves move in funny ways in boats, it pays to inspect very very carefully.

"bent prop shaft" which could mean, the shaft log (fun to replace) the glass around that, any skeg supporting the rod? A new cutless bearing, and perhaps even the bolts into the transmission took some of that bend. The engine may need aligning, it may have shifted on the mounts, or the mounts may also have cracked.

Any hairline cracking in the rudder, rudder post, rudder tube? Steering gear on the rudder post?

As for the spreader--if you can't find an exact match I'd suggest a new PAIR is in order, RigRite should be able to find someting substantially similar and if not, you take the good one to a machine shop and order up a pair.

If you're not filing a claim, make sure this is documented promptly and completely, and tell the crane guy you want his *written* agreement to repair all damage found by YOUR choice of surveyor and "make you whole" and you want it NOW if he wants you to deal with it just between you and him.

Sometimes there's not much wrong. Other times...when something that heavy slams, that shock wave really sneaks around.