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Old 18-02-2020, 07:13   #1
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Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

I spent two hours searching before making a new thread as I know this information is out there on the forum, but could not find it- please forgive if you have answered this question before.

I am performing a “time & effort” (Read: MONEY) cost study/analysis on our next boat and need some opinions from experienced commentators.

The question I have for you guys is par of the feasibility study of buying a 38’ aluminum deck salon sailboat- bare hull. A failed dream of a man killed by cancer. Hull is painted beautifully, but perhaps this is an issue with fit out as this will make any further welding expensive or nearly impossible. Has all hatches/windows with the boat acrylic still in paper (nice patterns at least). Has engine which was delivered from the factory 20+ years ago and has since sat unused. SABB continuous duty 30hp. Head will be removed and oil tested- lets consider its condition dead on arrival. Tanks are integral and complete. Floors, framing, bulkheads, watertight bulkheads, standpipes with seacocks, some walls, all in: welding seems complete. Has windlass.
NO RIG. Needs 45’ stick, boom, sails. Chainplates are integral. I am not afraid of a used and re-annodized stick.

My wife and I like simple boats. Refrigeration, lights, fans, depth sounder, VHF, stereo.. That’s about it. Might consider radar in the future, but it would be a digital wireless affair anyway as we navigate with ruggedized IPADS (5 years without an issue and counting).

I would like a Formica interior. White oak trim (no teak: anywhere).. Think Dashew Sundeer: simple, bright, well lit.

I am repaired/built boats professionally and generally been in composites for 10+ years. I now do CAD for a living as a recent graduate. (Let me known if you need any drawings..)


My question:

What costs have these types of projects been for you guys? What should my estimated budget be?
Not including storage/transport. Concentrating on parts/materials.
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Old 19-02-2020, 06:38   #2
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

I posted that from my phone and it’s a mess.

Just wondering what you guys have spent on outfitting 38-40 boats from a bare hull? Parts/materials estimates appreciated.
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Old 20-02-2020, 16:10   #3
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

I'm in the midst of a full restoration of my Willard 36 trawler in Ensenada MX (south of San Diego). I'd say you will be in the range of 4000 man-hours plus or minus 1000. By the time you're done with refrigeration, upholstery, plumbing, through hulls, hoses, rigging, woodwork, finish work, nav gear, etc., you could easily have $80k plus or minus $30k. In cheap labor markets, metal work, electrical work, and mechanical work are often 2x (or more) labor rates for general labor and carpentry.

Unfortunately, places where labor is cheap often mean materials are expensive or difficult to source.
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Old 20-02-2020, 16:40   #4
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

Appreciate the response. Do those numbers include labor costs? The 50-110k?

I spent some time in Habalito Guatemala a couple years back and I have a good idea what you mean- labor labor everywhere, but nothing to build with but concrete.
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Old 20-02-2020, 16:57   #5
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

No. Labor is just hours because it varies so much by location. I left Sam Francisco where yard labor was at least $125/hr for Ensenada where labor is under $20/hr.

Materials really add up. Upholstery is easily $5k. Interior wood for bulkheads even if formica covered (which is close to $100/sheet). Bilge pumps. Hoses. I probably have $100 in hose clamps alone. Plumbing fittings for both fuel and water - easy to have several hundred dollars in that even for a simple install. Anchor. Windlass. Battery cable (easy to have a few hundred bucks in battery cable and fittings). But $80k is just a guess. Make a list and double it for install consumables and stuff you forgot about. I have no idea about mast, boom, standing and running rigging. But cost of winches really adds up. Difficult to find used self tailing 2-speed winches of a decent size.
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Old 20-02-2020, 17:08   #6
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

I reread your original post. Sounds like there may be more interior than I thought. But it still takes time. Maybe half my original guess - 2000 man hours. But that's only a guess.

I'm with you on simple look. But cost is in the time more than the materials once the foundation is there which it is.
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Old 20-02-2020, 17:15   #7
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

Thank you for your time to re-read and give me an opinion. It’s all conjecture, but I need something to start from.
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Old 20-02-2020, 23:06   #8
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

The biggest cost factor is going to be reflected in how big a sheet of plywood you can get inside the hull? If you cannot get a 4’ wide sheet inside the hull then all your bulkheads etc are going to have to be cut down to whatever size you can fit in the companionway. The other thing is everyday at lunch I would scan the net for deals. Often I would be the first person to ring and secure the item. I am currently fitting a $300 Muir electric anchor winch that looks like new.
We built a 32’ x 11’ wide yacht here in Australia from plywood 3 years ago for $30,000 material cost. The interior is just a rolled paint finish with Perspex doors I cut out from a 6mm sheet. Bulk discounts by buying all my plywood, paint and epoxy in one hit and buying “new never used” gear on the net saved us a lot of money. I used eBay to buy my sanding discs and gloves etc.
It all depends on what interior standard you can live with. I was once fired for taking to long to fit out a steel 40’ yacht. The owner turned up with a Skilsaw and dropsaw and knocked the interior together in a month! I snuck onboard for a look and boy it was rough.
If the wife can paint and sand then you can really knock together an interior pretty quick.
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Old 21-02-2020, 02:01   #9
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

I would back-up what MVWeebles has said- $80+ K would be a reasonable guess (maybe a bit on the low side).

If your main aim is sailing I strongly advise you to buy a secondhand yacht as there is a glut of them for sale in the US of A as well as Australia and you can buy them well below replacement cost. Young people are not interested in sailing (too busy on their iPads) so there is no demand

Just the winches cost a fortune for the 43ft yacht I am building

Halyard winches 44ST $1400 X2 .... $2800
Sheet winches 54ST $3200 X2 ...... $6400
Anchor winch ............................. $2200

I've really scrounged for lead - buying off tyer fitters and melting them down but the 4 tonne of lead will cost $8000

Then there are the bilge pumps, batteries, fans, anchor chain ...

I've seen plenty of yachts where clearly the builder ran out of money and if they offered to take me for an afternoon sail I would politely decline. There effort would only be worth scrap value (There are some very sad sights)

But if you like building a project and cost doesn't come into it then go for it. There are some really beautiful amateur built yachts. I think the builders of Justice should be very proud.
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Old 21-02-2020, 04:12   #10
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

Awesome points guys.

Copec43: lead is in the boat and welded over finished. Winches are a tough one, my wife is definitely a Mighty Mouse, but we run oversized winches everywhere. I think that’s one of those items where “like new” used would be safe as so many of them last decades.

Fore an Aft: Wife can definitely paint and sand like a champ. Plywood should slide down companion way, bulkheads are welded in.

Is that 30k the entire boat or just interior materials?
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Old 21-02-2020, 04:40   #11
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco View Post
Awesome points guys.

Copec43: lead is in the boat and welded over finished. Winches are a tough one, my wife is definitely a Mighty Mouse, but we run oversized winches everywhere. I think that’s one of those items where “like new” used would be safe as so many of them last decades.

Fore an Aft: Wife can definitely paint and sand like a champ. Plywood should slide down companion way, bulkheads are welded in.

Is that 30k the entire boat or just interior materials?



Not thirty thousand dollars! EIGHTY THOUSAND PLUS Australian dollars.
On top of that would be the cost of mast, rigging and sails.

But the cost of interior materials? How long is a piece of string?

I went through all the color magazine photos an came up with a style that I liked and I've kept that theme.

Here's a tip
Hydraulic steering would be simple to install but a lot of people don't like it as you don't get " feedback". Chain and cable is very difficult on a center cockpit yacht but on an aft cockpit yacht should be easy. I used converted "V" belt pulleys for my cable which saved heaps.

For the galley I think you should think about an induction hob and a convection microwave for cooking. Have a look at this thread https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...op-221002.html
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Old 21-02-2020, 08:06   #12
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

The 30k came from Fore-an-Aft. I was asking him if that was just materials.

Fore and aft- do you sail the Atkins design fore and aft? We currently sail a one-off fiberglass Benbow. Love the boat, sails like a champ with a 30’ waterline and fresh sails/rig. But would really like a walk in bathroom/shower.

Copec43: we dislike wheels. Tillers for life. Haha we also do not use microwaves for anything and never will. We prefer a propane stove with oven. Thanks though. Appreciate all your time.
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Old 21-02-2020, 14:43   #13
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco View Post
The 30k came from . I was asking him if that was just materials.

Fore and aft- do you sail the Atkins design fore and aft? We currently sail a one-off fiberglass Benbow. Love the boat, sails like a champ with a 30’ waterline and fresh sails/rig. But would really like a walk in bathroom/shower.

Copec43: we dislike wheels. Tillers for life. Haha we also do not use microwaves for anything and never will. We prefer a propane stove with oven. Thanks though. Appreciate all your time.

I'd agree with everything Fore-an-Afts says regarding fitting out. There are some bargains to be found if you watch places like eBay etc.

I was involved in a small way with construction of a 53ft yacht before I moved back to the city. When I passed through the town 2 years later the builders enthusiasm had waned and he decided to use bean-bags instead taking time to do joinery.

Of course if you do a rough job no-one will want to buy it if you decide to sell.

There are production yachts that are well built but pretty spartan- shelves/netting instead of lockers and cupboards. They just have an ice box instead of refrigeration and no 240V power. That save a huge amount of time and saves money.

Don't let me put you off.

Best of luck.
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Old 21-02-2020, 14:54   #14
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

If you're gonna do a slop job, you may want to pass and spend the money on a used boat in sail away condition. Many are selling for a fraction of replacement value and are a better use of time and money. Only reason to build from scratch would be to get the boat of your dreams.
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Old 21-02-2020, 14:57   #15
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Re: Cost of outfitting a 38’ bare hull

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Originally Posted by mvweebles View Post
If you're gonna do a slop job, you may want to pass and spend the money on a used boat in sail away condition. Many are selling for a fraction of replacement value and are a better use of time and money. Only reason to build from scratch would be to get the boat of your dreams.

Absolutely my sentiments too!
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