Coppercoat after 6 months away

[Yes maybe]

Re Copper coat's effectiveness
Installed copper coat on a 46' cat. I was quite satisfied with the results.

This is what i learned:
Must start with a good smooth sub straight and epoxy barrier.
The copper coat must be mixed correctly and constantly or the copper sinks to the bottom of the application trays.
I think some applications go wrong at this point.
Many thin coats are required. And hand rubbing with dry #300 to 400 to expose the copper from the paint.

Unless you keep your boat on the hard, you need to wipe it down every 2 to 4 weeks depending on local conditions.
This is one of the "costs" of boat ownership.

If you dont like the "costs" dont own a boat.

Relying on some of nastiest toxins from hell, to do your work is many things not in the good section of existence.

[billgewater]

TBT antifouling? yes, I am sure you can buy and use it, but surely that would be simply irresponsible when there are other alternatives. Just because some (probably the navies /merchant shipping and aluminium hulls) may use it does not mean small craft that spend more time or presence in inland waters should be using it.

However, I am not surprised that better anti foulings have not been developed. If I was in the paint business, I would definitely not want to see a long lasting effective anti-fouling material. It's a gold mine industry at present.

One of the many reasons people pull out of boat ownership I reckon.

[mako]

Reference to the effectiveness that everyone is stating about TBT antifouling, can anyone quantify that a bit more? For example, the ablative on my boat in Southern California was still solid after 2 to 3 years. What would you expect to achieve with TBT?

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Bycrick

...So, if it’s legal where I’m at to buy and apply it, I can see no reason to apply laws of other jurisdictions...

How about the reason that it is terrible for the environment? (or is that too "science based" for you?)

...Just because the eco-freaks in California decide that something is good or bad doesn’t mean that their rules should apply world-wide...

I didn't read anywhere that California was responsible for the rules against TBT? Apparently we don't like Californians much, huh? And Eco-Freaks? I don't exactly get that. No, I do get it. You are so angry at Californians that you happily blame them for anything you don't like.

...But I’m opposed to the idea that I'm supposed to give up something that’s legal and effective where I’m at, so that you can feel good about saving the world...

"so that you can feel good about saving the world"? Now there's a clue. A poison which is bad for the environment is, in your opinion, just being banned because people you hate want to feel good about saving the world

Bycrick, We are sailors, we want our ocean to be clean and alive, not inert and dead. That is our reason for supporting the ban on TBT. Your assertion that you have every right to buy it in those places where it is legal is probably true, but your reasons (that it was done by "eco freak Californians") says more about your politics than your love for the oceans.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

I worked for a company for 2.5 yrs that cleans boat bottoms in the Tampa Bay area literally by the hundreds every single week of the year and they have found nothing that is perfect. Nothing that lasts forever and nothing that does not need to be cleaned regularly.
It is their incredibly experienced opinion that any boat expecting to sail should be cleaned at least once a month regardless of whatever you slather onto the hull.

Now, I know that the colder the water the slower the growth. I know that different regions grow at different speeds. I know that current and tidal movement make a big difference.

But guys, seriously expect to rub down the bottom of your boat once a month at least in the tropics. Its not that hard and most of us could use the exercise.

Yup, this

[SimonP]

Bycrick, you have united everyone reading this thread
I hope one day you will feel free to join us
Until then, best wishes to you

[LifePart2]

Just to catch up with all the posts asking about the application process.

We did the job ourselves in Portomao, Portugal and were told by all the workers there that we had done a fantastic job. Yes it has been rubbed down as per instructions. Yes it is a greenish colour. It was a lot of work and not cheap. But we were all very pleased with the result.

And yes, it seemed to be working well in the Med. The first year it was stationary in a marina most of the time and came out clean. The problems started when we moved south and then across to the Caribbean. Perhaps if we return to the Med it might work fine again.

We have a catamaran. That means two hulls to clean. To get to the bottom and the keels means hauling out the hookah. It is not a trivial job, and if we just had to do it every few months to save hauling out and repainting it would be worth it. But every two weeks is too much. Especially when we had previous experience with Island 44 and the boat was skpotless for the first year, and pretty good for most of the second.

So, I am glad that other people are having better luck with their Copercoat. But we are done with it, and at the next haulout we will probably go with Micron 66. We don't like having to haul out every year or so, but it seems that even with the Copercoat we have to do that to rub it down - and still we get disappointing results. So we are switching back.

Our boat, our decision. You all may choose different options.

I am now exiting this discussion. My goal was just to report on one boat's experience with the product. You guys can continue to debate the whole TBT vs USA thing. The trouble is that discussions about bottom paint are in the same category as discussions about anchors - endless!

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by malcolmlj

My experience is if mixed and applied as instructed no other treatment approaches the effectiveness of coppercoat.

My experience is that there are few anti fouling coatings that are less effective. And I've seen it used on a fair number of hulls.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by SimonP

What we need is a suction cleaner for hulls similar to the ones used in swimming pools.

Let us know how it works out for you.

https://www.keelcrab.com/

[David B]

Originally Posted by LifePart2

Five years ago, in Portugal, we had coppercoat applied to our bottoms.

For the first year it looked like it was doing a reasonable job. But after that first year it became increasingly unimpressive. Indeed for the last three years we would have to scrape the bottom every few weeks to remove the growth, which was mostly a very tenacious green weed that would grow to several inches long. To get it properly off took vigorous scrubbing with a scotchbrite. Not easy underwater.

A year ago we had it on the hard and did another thorough rub down to 'reactivate it' as our last ditch effort to make it work. It looks the right color. It is nice and smooth. But it does not impede growth.

Last Christmas LIfe Part 2 was in Simpson Lagoon, St Martin for 2 months. When we got back the growth slowed us down by a full 2 knots.

This time we left her on a mooring in Grenada for 6 months (since March) and came back to a full ecosystem:

We have green weeds, colorful sponges, tube worms, shrimps (including a banded coral shrimp - never seen one before), crabs, a tiny 2-inch lobster, the tiny shrimp/krill/whatever that get in your hair, ears and everywhere esle, lots of different small fish, including some that are living in the water intakes for my toilets - they then get sucked up and smashed up in the intake strainer, thus blocking it. A few barnacles too, but not a huge number.

Fortunately it all scrapes off pretty easily, like a 1970's shag carpet. and then swe rubbed it all down with scotchbrites.

So on our next haulout we are going back to bottom paint. Maybe Island 44 hard?

Yes, these pictures are our boat bottom. The last one is the before and after scraping.

In contrast, we left our boat in a nutrient rich marina for a full 12 months. When we returned, we noted the nasty, hard growth on the surrounding hulls. On ours, we had a light layer of sediment clinging around the waterline that just fell off as I brushed my hand past it. Further down, there was virtually nothing. This was four years since the Coppercoat was applied, and we had not touched it since application other than a pressure wash once a year.

Now, eight seasons on, there is a bit of vegetative growth (just tufts here and there) and it is due for it's first burnish since application.

I suggest when yours was applied, it may have either not been applied thinly enough (so there is not a homogenous mix with the resin - the copper has settled between coats), or it was not applied wet on tacky - minimum four/five coats, all in the one day (so you have layers, rather than one, thick homogenous coat).

Were you there when it was applied? We weren't, but fortunately the yard did a good job.

Coppercoat has saved us a lot of money and work over the years. Sorry to hear your experience is not as positive as ours. The other thing that comes to mind is if the coating has been sanded regularly, there may not be enough left. As above, we are just due for the first burnish, and that will be with a fine 'Scotchbrite' style of pad rather than sand paper.

[NPCampbell]

I hate to throw a wrench in this discussion but I see people dogging TBT on the one hand (I'm sure it's probably bad stuff) and then donning a halo while speaking fondly of copper based bottom paints.

Copper is toxic and deadly to marine organisms, especially invertebrates, crustacea, etc. It's typically considered the most problematic metal in marine environments. If you have a fish tank and you want to wipe out all the snails in it what do you use? Copper sulfate. Same with algae. Although it doesn't have as drastic an effect on fish, it generally interferes with the uptake of oxygen across gill tissue.

I'm definitely not an expert on bottom paints so I'm not sure what the most effective eco friendly paint would be. Maybe silicon foul release?

[SimonP]

Just a left-field idea here:
How about Teflon non-stick coating?
Not sure if it comes as a paint
It might not stop organisms trying to grab a hold, but they might be easier to wipe off
It sure worked for Bill Clinton

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

I hate to throw a wrench in this discussion but I see people dogging TBT on the one hand (I'm sure it's probably bad stuff) and then donning a halo while speaking fondly of copper based bottom paints.

Gosh, and all this time I thought copper-based anti fouling paints were classified as pesticides because of how ecologically friendly they were. 🙄

Lesser of two evils, cheif. Much “lesser.”

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by billgewater

TBT antifouling? yes, I am sure you can buy and use it, but surely that would be simply irresponsible when there are other alternatives. Just because some (probably the navies /merchant shipping and aluminium hulls) may use it does not mean small craft that spend more time or presence in inland waters should be using it.

However, I am not surprised that better anti foulings have not been developed. If I was in the paint business, I would definitely not want to see a long lasting effective anti-fouling material. It's a gold mine industry at present.

One of the many reasons people pull out of boat ownership I reckon.

TBT is used by big ships - especially tankers - you'll not see any lines overboard from crew fishing.
It's not too long before even the big boys are banned - their plea on account their boats have to go into dry dock to clean or re-paint.

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

My experience is that there are few anti fouling coatings that are less effective. And I've seen it used on a fair number of hulls.

Hmmm I think you are meaning to say the opposite to what I understand what you have written?

I think you like and think Coppercoat is more effective than most others?

Is this correct?

I value you opinion but I dont understand which side of the Coppercoat debate you are on from this post?