'Catalina Smile' on a prospective purchase -questions to ask

[daviddiscenza]

Hello,

We have an offer in on a 1993 Catalina 34'. It has been disclosed that the boat had at one time developed the 'Catalina Smile" at the keel/hull joint. The broker told me that the crack started on the leading edge of the keel and proceeded back to about a foot from the trailing edge. This was repaired and I could see no evidence of a crack when I viewed the boat.

I want to ask the owner for the name of the yard that did the work so I can ask them questions about what was done to repair the "smile".

Since I don't know what I don't know, I'd appreciate the advice of forum members for the questions I should ask whoever did the repairs and what I should listen for in their answers.

Also, what's the likelihood of this recurring? I realize that it depends upon how they repaired the crack.

Thanks to all who take the time to reply.

[gulfstar37]

Catalina smile is a common issue with these boats. Many owners repair these on a every other year or so routine. Normal cause is bolt on keel to hull fairing cracks on leading edge. There is a transision piece, (wood?), between the keel and fiberglass hull. This usually does not appear to be much of an issue and is evident on a significant numbers of this manufacture. Repair was to grind the fairing from the area, lay several layers of fg tape, refair and put new coat of bottom paint on. At next haul out you would hope you didn't see the start of the fimiliar crack again. I've heard gflex or similar epoxy product that has some flexibility usually last longer for the repair and sometimes people claim is permanent. I owned a 76 cat 27 for 20 years and did the repair myself about every 3 or 4 years. Friend of mine has older cat 30 and has had success with the Gflex method after repairing every 2 years. Brother has 2010 cat 36 and has yard repair twice so far. Most of time this "smile" is just a crack. If there is fluid oozing out there may be other issues.

Something to look for on "any" boat is evidence of keel damage from hitting something or grounding. This can cause cracking on the keel to hull joint and other structural issues.

My 2 cents

[tkeithlu]

I'll add another two cents. As a general engineering principle, cracks need to be stop drilled, not just patched. The reason is that a crack is a stress focus - when you once again hit something, the stress at the end of the crack is huge. I can remember my mechanical engineering professor showing me the calculation, but can no longer do it myself. The hole drilled at the end of the crack distributes that stress, and prevents the crack extending further.

In addition, the repair should not be back to the original, it should be bunches stronger than the original, which, after all, failed on impact. The idea of repairing a structural crack every few years startles me - we're taliking about a recurring structural failure, not gelcoat. That suggests that a really bad bottom hit might tear the keel loose.

[Tetepare]

There is plenty on the internet about the Catalina Smile on both Catalinas and other makes. In most cases it is cosmetic. Whether it is or not, and how to tell, is beyond me except in the most obvious cases.

My C30 experienced a hard grounding, enough to remove a golf ball size chunk from the bottom of the lead keel. Aside from that damage, the vessel exhibits no other signs of damage- no leaks, no problem with keel bolts, and no Catalina Smile. This leads me to question how hard a grounding would be required to cause a smile crack on a C30 and other lead keel models.

[dcstrng]

The Catalina smile was not unusual in many of the modestly-priced, fin-keel boats of that era, Catalina or otherwise – I would certainly want to know the history and repair for a crack that ran more than a few inches…

I agree with tkeith, if properly repaired it should not continue to be an event. I have a similar crack on the back of my Oday keel (perhaps grounding or maybe misuse of storage stands), and like the Catalina variant some previous owner of mine apparently thought it was just a cosmetic issue – not! Mine developed into a leak (okay when sitting at the dock, but sailing where the ballast worked the hull/deck joint, continued to erode the structural integrity and eventually opened to the outside…). I’d suggest getting someone with a fabricating/engineering background to recommend any repairs because with a few thousand pounds of ballast hanging/swaying off of it, a cosmetic crack can migrate to structural…

[daviddiscenza]

Thanks to all of you for your replies. For some reason, I wasn't able to edit my original post. The "smile" was only about 8 inches in length. I spoke with the head of the yard that did the repairs. He told me that they had ground out the crack, injected a flexible epoxy, reglassed the joint, and covered with bottom paint.

As he explained it to me, this is something that Catalina owners "have to live with". It may not show up again for several years. Then again, if I go aground (not too hard to do on the Chesapeake Bay if one is not paying attention) it could be back a lot sooner.

It's good to know this going in. I'll just have to include this in my budget for the boat

[dcstrng]

Originally Posted by daviddiscenza

Thanks to all of you for your replies. The "smile" was only about 8 inches in length. I spoke with the head of the yard that did the repairs. He told me that they had ground out the crack, injected a flexible epoxy, reglassed the joint, and covered with bottom paint...

From what I've been able to glean -- that is exactly the way to do it -- am using GFlex on mine, then conventional West and cloth externally...