Cape Dory 27 Refit - Construction Questions

[WhoKnows]

Hi all,

I've been reading through these forums for a few years, but I only got my first boat a couple of weeks ago, and I figured it was time to really join.

My boat is a 1981 Cape Dory 27. It was a yard find and needs some work, but it was basically free, so I'm going to give it a shot. I've got woodworking experience, but this is my first time working on a real boat, and I'll definitely be soliciting advice from you experts. I'm sort of modeling my refit on Pear and Dave's refit of their Cape Dory 25 (see a link to their adventure below). I love their simplistic approach.

My first question is pretty basic. How do I know what is structurally important within the cabin. Obviously the bulkheads are important, but what about some of the other wood work in the cabin? Remarkably, the bulkheads on the boat look fine, but a lot of the other wood in the cabin (the sole, the wood that makes up the settees, some of the wood that makes up the "cabinetry" on the walls, the wood in the v-berth...) is rotted, and I want to remove and redesign it, but I don't know if it needs to be designed in the same way in order to maintain structural integrity or something.

Also, I removed the holding tank and the toilet yesterday. The toilet is located between the two bulkheads and a small cabinet system was behind the toilet between and perpendicular to the bulkheads. Can this be removed or is it important for the structural integrity of the bulkheads or something? Ideally, I'd like to remove anything non-essential, as much of it is in bad condition, and redesign/rebuild the interior.

I've found the owners manual on the CDSOA site, but I haven't found it particularly useful for figuring out what I can and can't remove.

Anyway, I know this was pretty general, and I'll happily reply to posts more specifically if I get replies.

Hope everyone stays well during these wild times,

Ryan


Dave and Pearl's Refit
Sailing Offshore

[TrentePieds]

The two bulkheads that enclose the toilet room are essential structural members in that they both prevent "panting" (moving in and out of the hull's sides) and carry the compression loads of the mast into the hull structure of the boat. They should not be trifled with! If anything, there might be wisdom in strengthening them by augmenting them with a thwartships beam spanning the overhead between them as Dave and Pearl appear to have done.

The fore'n'aft bulkheads comprising the furniture in the toilet room are not structural and can be dispensed with/replaced.

Fore'n'aft partial bulkheads inboard of the settees in the saloon should also be left in place, as should the partial thwartships bulkheads defining the galley. So that doesn't leave you a whole lot to play with :-)

If you were to rough out an arrangement plan as you envisage that you would have it, we will be better able to advise you. The plan obviously doesn't have to be "professional" quality. Just good enuff to let us know what you would like to do.

I concur with Dave that 1/2" "MDO" is wonderful material for the purpose. Hereabouts it goes under the trade names of "FormaPly" and "SteelPly". I use it a lot because it is easy to work with, even with handsaws and planes, it finishes nicely with "white lead varnish", and it is light in weight.

TrentePieds

[Don C L]

Welcome aboard WhoKnows! You are now officially enrolled in the Plastic Classics social group! Don't worry you we won't spam you with donation requests. Trentpieds has it right on the structural importance of bulkheads and deck, the rest of it is more up to your discretion but do be sure the tabbing, the bonding to the hull, is secure of course. Your Cape Dory hull is well known for being solidly built. Here is a link to the Plastic Classics social group and there are some links in there to some refits, and 2 that I recall for Cape Dories, a 25 and a 31. There may be some useful stuff in there. And please include the chronicle of your experiences to for others!
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...s+of+note.html
Congratulations! Those are sweet boats. Years ago I had my eyes on one that was in pieces in a yard too, but the owner wouldn't let go of her.

[roverhi]

Production boats from the era of your CD really only need the main bulkhead at the chainplates and a solid hull to deck joint. The strongest way to build a glass boat is to laminate stringers into the full length of the hull. When we built our Westsail we carefully glassed all the furniture to the hull with 3 layers of glass tape/matt undoubtedly making it way stronger than a stock boat. Of course the hull layup of a W32 was overkill and not needed. To put it succinctly, don't worry about it and glass everything that is adjacent to the hull to the hull. Might want lay up an additional layer or two the main bulkheads and other furniture you keep just to make it stronger.

[WhoKnows]

Awesome. Thanks. That's a great start and really helped out a lot. Yeah. I knew to leave the major bulkheads alone for those reasons, but I wasn't sure about the galley. I will work on getting a plan up so that my questions can be more clear. First, I'm just working on getting all of the rotted wood out.

A few quick questions:

When you say the partial fore'n'aft bulkheads under the settees, do you mean the fiberglass structure under the settees or the wood panel that makes up the side of the settee attached to the cabin sole, because these will definitely need replacing.

For the galley, my plan was to leave all of the fiberglass in place, but to remove and extend the existing galley kind of like this couple did (see link below)


Finally, what about all of the wood paneling in the cabin (e.g. the wood that Cape Dory used to create vertical sides cabin)? Is that structural or can it be removed to accommodate a new design.

As I said, I really appreciate the help. Even just that first post has given me my next project (removing the fore'n'aft bulkheads comprising the furniture in the toilet room and hanging locker). Much obliged.

Ryan


Our Cape Dory 27: Galley Progress

[Kumbaya31]

You need to join the Cape Dory Sailboat Owners Association.
The forum and website there has much information specific to Cape Dory.
This forum does too but you may find more specific info at capedory.org.

[Kumbaya31]

Woops. I didn't read your whole post.
I see you've already found CDSOA.
I suggest you also post your questions on the forum there.
You may have to join CDSOA to post on that forum.
It's worth it.

[Don C L]

Send us some photos, that will help. I am not sure how Cape Dory did it, does it have fiberglass stringers that the cabinetry is bolted to? If so that makes life easier. If the cabinets are tabbed in they will have to be removed and ground down to clean fiberglass to do the remodeling. And of course CDSOA will most likely be the go-to place for all your questions too. Just a side note, and I am sure you may not want to do major surgery, but 99% of the small boats like ours had the galley at the companionway. Mine does not, and I really appreciate that about my own design, so much so that if I were to be remodeling one like yours I'd definitely consider going to an interior layout like mine, in a Columbia 29 "cruising" layout. To me it makes much better use of the little space we have. If you go to my profile and go to my photo albums I have a few shots of the interior layout to show what I mean in case you are interested. Anyway, best of luck!

[WhoKnows]

Wow. Thanks for all of this advice. I didn't expect so many responses so quickly. Kumbaya31, yes I'm aware of CDSOA, and I'll make my way over there as well. Thanks for the tip.

Don C L, thanks for the social group invite and for your thoughts. I'm not afraid of major surgery so long as I don't screw with the safety of the boat. I'm fine as a woodworker, but I'm no ships architect. I'll be sure to document the work I do though, that's a great reminder.

Roverhi, I appreciate your comment as well. I've been pretty anxious about messing something up, but your comment makes me think I might be fretting too much. I'll make sure I tab everything in.

Again, Thanks all. I'll update with other comments and questions as they come up. Y'all have already been great.

Ryan

[CarlF]

Congratulations on your new boat.

I’d caution about making big changes in the interior without checking with other CD owners. Sailboat interiors are always a compromise and it’s sometimes very difficult for someone new to boats to know why they ended up in a certain way.

One example. The sink is close to the middle of the boat. That seems a stupid place to put it. But sinks that are way off the centerline won’t drain on both tacks.

I would only make changes that other CD27 owners have made and talk with them about whether there were unexpected disadvantages.

Also be aware that “owner improvements” are a problem when it comes time to sell the boat. The closer it looks to a standard brand CD27, the better the sale price.

For a production boat the Cape Dory’s had a very high level of interior carpentry. You’ll find it a fun challenge for your carpentry skills to bring her back to that standard.

[svchinamoon]

Check out “Sail Life” on YouTube. Although it is a larger boat he is doing a complete rebuild and he is doing things right. I am sure you will get tips that will be useful in your own rebuild. Good luck

[Kumbaya31]

Ryan,
If you go to the CDSOA website look for some posts by a guy named John Stone. He did a complete rebuild/refit of a CD-36. His boat is the Far Reach. He has a website. You'll find references/links to it in his posts. His rebuild was very extensive. He would be a good source for you and you could probably contact him directly with questions. I think his website chronicles the rebuild.

[LittleWing77]

Ryan,

Just a peripheral point, but as you remove rotted wood take note of what might have caused the rot, i.e. leaks. Before you start rebuilding your interior, you need to ensure the integrity of your hull and the deck-hull joinery. THEN you'll be free to prettify the interior without down-the-road repercussions.

And like someone else said, please post pictures!
Warmly,
LittleWing77

[jfischgrund]

I'm in agreement with CarlF. (I am a CD27 owner). The interior design is very efficient and well-built, and I would not want to mess with it. The enclosed head is a very good feature, especially for short cruises or taking a few people out for a day sail, CarlF is correct about re-sale as well. Most people who are looking for a CD27 want the classic design. I would want to rebuild the wood sections that appear to be rotting while first finding out what is the source of the water that must be getting to them. Be sure and read LONDON Goes to Sea, by Peter J. Baumgartner, which is a very engaging description of a complete refit of a Cape Dory 27. Good luck with it -- it's a wonderful boat.

[WhoKnows]

Hey all thanks for your replies.

Don C L: It appears that none of the furniture (or even the bulkheads) are tabbed in. Everything is screwed into fiberglass components attached to the hull (I hesitate to call them stringers because, for instance under the settees, sometimes they are fiberglass forms.

Based on your comments, does that mean if I don't mess with the fiberglass and just remove the wood, I should be good?