Canvas Sewing Machine Questions...

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Lazy Jack 32

We used a heavy-duty Singer

The Singer 66 class of machines has an 8" throat, and it looks like you can still put walking foot attachments on them.

I still have to do a little bit of research, but it looks like they aren't too expensive, are all metal and mechanical designs, and have a nice roomy throat to work in. It's shot to the top of the "possibles" list.

[NorthCoastJoe]

A friend of mine had a New Home sewing machine from the 1800s that could sew through anything, treddle power.

[Bill Seal]

Just suck it up and get the right machine!! The Chinese (or Japanese) portable machines are basically the same machine. Depending on which features you want, you can get a Sailrite, Rex, Yamata/family Sew, Omega, Consew portable, Innovation, or any of a dozen renamed brands. They're all metal, weigh about 45lbs, and should last forever. They also are designed with a gear reduction. The reason I got a new one was I needed the zigzag function and found a great price at Zamirsew. (they'll sell you a $2k Juki or Pfaff if that's what you want.)
That little plastic add-on walking foot device is only suitable for curtains or quilting.
Right now, I'm in the middle of repacing the diamond tuck upholstery in my HotRod roadster, gone through a couple dozen bobbins of V92 thread so far...

[JPA Cate]

....I think Bill meant that the Chinese and Japanese machines are the same as the SailRites. Possibly under different quality control. I'm not sure about that. However, what that means is what I alluded to yesterday, perhaps not as clearly as I should have. SailRite instructions for machine adjustments will be valid for the Chinese machines. They are very similar, and this means it will be equally easy for Too Coys to learn to do all that, by looking at the SailRite site videos and manuals.


"neophyte learning curve" reminded me of taking tailor's chalk and drawing the stitching lines till I learned to know the seam allowance I wanted, to get straight stitching. Amazingly wobbly, some of those early attempts.

The method of creating your own seam allowances allows you to save fabric by using narrower seams....but if 1/4" or less, you really should either zig zag the seam afterwards, or run another row of stitches, so you know the seam won't fail.

@ Too Coys: when you are trying to get rolled up vinyl clears through the throat, it tends to grab and stick on the bottom, and wherever else it can. You can use stuff to help it slide, like satin pillowslips, any slippery fabric, between the vinyl and the wood of the table you're working on, and the machine itself.

Another option to consider, especially when learning, is to use large zig zag stitches, they are much easier to rip out than straight stitches. Remember, mistakes make holes in vinyl, so rain can then get in; my suggestion is to start with the canvas, and get your skills going there, before you go on to the vinyl.

Make Sunbrella flaps to cover the zips. They will last longer, as they are prone to UV degradation.

Finally, I'd suggest making a few cushion covers for somewhere on the boat to learn about sewing straight and how fast you can go before you attempt the closure. The closure is a big job, and while surely within your capabilities, it has the potential to be very frustrating, and the materials are expensive, too.

My husband, Jim, bought an old Singer straight stitch machine for $25 dollars, and made a spinnaker with it, long ago. You could buy an old metal insides machine inexpensively to learn on, if you don't need the walking foot. If you want to shirr something, (unlikely, imo), someone here will explain how to do that without a walking foot.



Ann

[capt jgw]

I ended up buying a Rex zig zag machine which is basically the same as the Sailrite LSZ1. At $350 it was about half the price and I got a $100 discount from Amazon for getting their credit card. So only $250. The machine was the only thing I ever bought with that card so Amazon never got thier money's worth out of me. I also added the Monster Wheel which helps a lot. Half the speed and twice the power makes the machine much more controllable, they go too fast without it.
On arrival the machine sewed ok but not great. That's the biggest advantage with the Sailrite machines, they come set up and tuned right out of the box. The others not so much. But these are all old style mechanical machines and sooner or later they will go out of time and you'll have to tune it. I had an old LS1, the red straight stitch model, and I had to tune it a few times. One of the deciding factors for me was Sailrite published all their tuning videos on YouTube so I was able get and keep the machine tuned. Another Sailrite advantage is they have beefed up some of the internal parts that will likely break on the original machines. I had to replace a couple in mine and the Sailrite parts are drop in replacements. So overall the Chinese machines are a little more hands on DIY but if you're DIY oriented enough to want to do your own canvas work you probably have that covered. Both the Sailrite and the Rex have a 7" throat which is a problem with big fabric assemblies. Some real professional sail making machines have a 24" throat which shows how important that can be. Some of the cheaper machines can be had with a 9" throat which would help some. I looked at that but couldn't find any good reviews on those brands and knowing what a beating these machines can take I thought that extra two inches of shaft length might cause problems and might affect the ability to substitute Sailrite parts. A friend of mine recently bought a Sailrite with all the bells and whistles and has had a lot of trouble with needle strikes on the shuttle hook which will cause the thread to shred and break. That happens on all of them and is more of a technique problem than a mechanical problem. Trying to force or steer the material through the machine causes the needle to deflect and hit the hook and the slightest burr there with shred the thread.
And FIY, Sailrite calls the other brands "knockoffs" but actually the Sailrite is a knockoff too. The original was the Thompson from the 1950's which was copied by the Chinese and later picked up by Sailrite. Another friend of mine got one of those at an estate sale and has made all kinds of canvas items with it. Great machine of you can find one but I think they're straight stitch only. Straight is all you need for canvas but sails are better done with a zig zag.

[grantmc]

This is an interesting thread (catch the pun there I hope) about sewing machines. I pick up on the big bias for Sailrite machines. Perhaps it's not well known that for years they were made in Taiwan and for the last few years in mainland China. Sailrite make no secret of that fact: click here.

I myself have two machines I use. I have a heavy industrial German Adler from the 50s with a wheel foot. It is super quiet and I've yet to find a thickness limit. It was originally built for leather. Reading the thread I learned the term throat and I can report it has a 28cm throat (just a tad over 11 inches in American). But it is horrifically heavy and must remain in my house. It's other limitation is it can only straight stitch.

I also have a little Brother for fine work. Someone mentioned tension and the difficulty of getting them correct when jumping between two divergent thicknesses. Hence having a little domestic machine offers more options. The Brother is great for things like flags, clothes repairs etc.

Sharp needles are very important; just like fish hooks a little sand paper rub will help. And you can never over oil a sewing machine.

But the big point I think is get a machine with zig zag. Many machines have an optional zig zag foot that work well.

[PirateFoxy]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

@ Too Coys: when you are trying to get rolled up vinyl clears through the throat, it tends to grab and stick on the bottom, and wherever else it can. You can use stuff to help it slide, like satin pillowslips, any slippery fabric, between the vinyl and the wood of the table you're working on, and the machine itself.

You can use parchment paper (like for baking) as your ‘bottom’ layer of the stack with the vinyl. Just cut a wide strip and tape it on over your seam line. (No tape where you’re sewing, just on the edge of the paper to keep it in place on the vinyl.) When you’re done sewing the paper will be perforated by the needle so it will just tear away along the stitching line. The biggest thing is paper is hard on needles so they’ll dull faster. So have plenty of sharp needles.

There may be a purpose-made product now like a tape, but thin smooth paper works.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Just suck it up and get the right machine!!

As in boating, the “right” machine is different for all of us. Sailrite has definitely sold their fair share of koolaid, which a lot of folks have bought and drank apparently, but they certainly aren’t, and can’t be the end all, be all.

I’ve settled on the Singer 66 for now. They are plentiful, inexpensive, parts are widely available, and are commonly used to sew very thick leather. If I were to buy a Sailrite machine, it would be the base model anyway, and I can’t see paying $800 or more when I can pay $100, and have a machine that basically does the exact same thing, and has been doing the exact same thing for decades and decades.

ETA: the other advantage to the older Singers is that you can easily switch motors for larger more powerful motors at the cost of a six pack.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

.Finally, I'd suggest making a few cushion covers for somewhere on the boat to learn about sewing straight and how fast you can go before you attempt the closure. The closure is a big job, and while surely within your capabilities, it has the potential to be very frustrating, and the materials are expensive, too.

Ann

I was a home economics kind of student, opting to learn how to sew instead of taking a shop class, so I’ve been sewing since middle school. I’ve done my fair share of home and clothing projects. And although my experience is more limited, I have done pillows and cushions before, and did make couch cushions for my Hunter 27’ when I attempted sailing. I attempted a bimini for it as well, but without the proper space and equipment it turned out less than stellar.

[oleman]

I already posted about our 401A Singer dress maker sewing heavy materials.
I don't want to leave anyone with the impression that I do not support Sailrite.
Whether I ever purchase a machine from them or not, I am still their customer for all things sewing. AND the how-to videos keep me coming back. Their koolaid drinkers probably keep them in business but I benefit from their excellent catalogs and customer services too.
May your waterline never break!

[Cpt Mark]

Before Sailrite sold sewing machines there was the original Thompson walking foot. Sold at harbor freight of all places. Sailrite bouhght the company who'd had their machines made in Japan and changed the color, manufactured in China and doubled the price. Just sold my 30+ year old one to my cousin who is starting a canvas shop. The one I had was a straight stitch machine which is all you need.

I want a zig zag machine now so I bought the Barracuda from Reilable corp who from what I saw online is the mfr of Sailrite. Parts seem to be interchangeable. With Sailrite, you get a machine that works perfectly out of the box. The knock off version people have complained that it took them a while to get things sorted. I wouldn't know, mine worked perfectly out of the box. It is noisy but it's still breaking in and getting smoother/quieter the more I use it. After I ordered it on Amazon the co. sent me an email wanting to knoe exactly what I'd be sewing. If I didn't respond within 2 days they'd cancel the order and refund my money. Their question was all about customer service and expectations. People had been buying them and then trying to sew lightweight fabrics which these machine are not designed for. Been very happy so far.

[Bill Seal]

The problem with simple homemaker machines is not the ability to punch through layers of material, but the feed system. There's a good explanation here: https://www.sailrite.com/Comparing-S...ing-Mechanisms. Sorry if it offends, coming form the Koolade vendor, but he does know what he's talking about.
I used an ancient Singer for canvas for years, (washers under the the tensioner, stronger spring on the presser foot), even made a mizzen sail with it. Finally had to give up and got a Chinese walker. Amazingly easier to sew with!

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

The problem with simple homemaker machines is not the ability to punch through layers of material, but the feed system. There's a good explanation here: https://www.sailrite.com/Comparing-S...ing-Mechanisms. Sorry if it offends, coming form the Koolade vendor, but he does know what he's talking about.
I used an ancient Singer for canvas for years, (washers under the the tensioner, stronger spring on the presser foot), even made a mizzen sail with it. Finally had to give up and got a Chinese walker. Amazingly easier to sew with!

Correct. Even my cheap machine bought in Aldi will punch through several layers of acrylic canvas but it struggles to move the material and hence lots of needle strikes.

[TooCoys]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

The problem with simple homemaker machines is not the ability to punch through layers of material, but the feed system. There's a good explanation here: https://www.sailrite.com/Comparing-S...ing-Mechanisms. Sorry if it offends, coming form the Koolade vendor, but he does know what he's talking about.
I used an ancient Singer for canvas for years, (washers under the the tensioner, stronger spring on the presser foot), even made a mizzen sail with it. Finally had to give up and got a Chinese walker. Amazingly easier to sew with!

I look at my current situation as the difference between a power drill and a screwdriver. Both will do the same job, one is just much easier.

The Singer should be delivered tomorrow, and I'll spend the weekend cleaning it and oiling it up. I'll report back once I get some material through it, and let you know what I find.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by TooCoys

What determines whether a sewing machine is suitable for canvas work or not?

I've been reading threads and people swear by machines from years gone by, all the way up to new multi-thousand dollar units.

All bells and whistles aside, is it simply a matter of motor power?

Are you looking to do repairs and simple projects or are you looking to go into business sewing marine projects?

I bought a used Singer sewing machine (a black 1938 straight stitch model) on eBay and it has served me well re-stitching canvas and making things like a helm cover and seat covers.

I would not consider tackling bigger jobs with it or sewing professionally. To be a professional, you need professional grade tools (and skill, of course).