Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-02-2021, 16:58   #1
ipc
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Vancouver
Boat: Cal 39
Posts: 3
Cal 39 rudder problem?

A large log hit the spade rudder of my 1980 Cal 39 last week. Steering wheel became noticeably stiffer but still functional. No noticeable damage or leaks but will pull the boat out this spring. Is anyone familiar with the Cal rudder post? Last time I checked in the yard there seemed to be a thin, flat plastic spacer between the top of the rudder and hull but no sign of bearings. If the post was bent ever so slightly, can it be straightened?
ipc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 17:31   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 349
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

The short answer is.... maybe, but not likely.

When a spade rudder hits something like this, the bend is usually right at the top of where the rudder post comes out of the blade of the rudder. There is no good way a machine shop can get hold of it to make it straight. I have had guys try, and fail.

If you were lucky, you have only damaged the removable parts of the bearing, but I wouldn't count on it.

And lets be honest here: the log did not hit you... unless you were anchored in a fast flowing river... which is POSSIBLE, you guys do have them up there...
BillKny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-02-2021, 18:39   #3
Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,183
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

Ouch - that hurt!

If the added friction in the steering is uniform throughout the turning of the wheel from stop to stop, I would think that the rudder stock is bent just exactly where the bottom bearing of the rudder tube in the hull provides an "anvil" to bend it against.

BillKny said it: You can't just drop the rudder and straighten the stock. There is nothing to hold onto and no way to measure that the stock is true even if you COULD bend it. So a new stock is required IMO with new tangs (as well as a new "cutless" in the bottom of the rudder tube). If you are good at boat repairs you MIGHT be able to use some to the old blade, but if I were in your shoes I'd laminate up a new blade from yellow cedar around the tangs on the new stock and sheathe it. YC is costly and Red Cedar will do in a pinch or even Douglas Fir. If the old Mill at Fort Langley is still in operation, that would be a source of YC. There is an RC mill in Albion, just east of Maple Ridge near where the old ferry ran before they put in the new bridge. Reimer Hardwoods on Peardonville Road in Abbotsford would also be able to get you what you need.

TrentePieds
TrentePieds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2021, 20:21   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,295
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

Here are a few comments about the Cal 39 rudder which are based on my own experience of owning a 1979 MK2 model for about 20 years, as well as info which is obtained from copies of Bill Lapworths original drawings of the 39 MK2/3 model.

The upper section of the rudder post is made of stainless tubing 3.5” in diameter with about schedule 40 wall thickness, or about 1/4” wall thickness. This tube extends from the top of the post down into the rudder about a foot where it is welded to a 3” tube which is angled aft maybe 10* and this tube continues further down into the rudder blade. The drawings appear to show this 3” tube inserted into the larger tube to absorb bending loads, but several rudders which I have seen have butt welds instead, and this has caused problems in some cases.

The rudder post is supported in the hull by a fiberglass tube fairly heavily glassed to the hull bottom, and extending up maybe 15”. On the top of this fiberglass tube is glassed a Yacht Specialities bronze seal fitting which acts to support the weight of the rudder. Above the seal fitting is the quadrant which is clamped and thru bolted to the rudder stock. The bronze quadrant rides on the bronze seal fitting providing a low friction surface. The rudder post continues up to the underside of the deck and is positioned by a bearing bolted to the underside of the deck. On my boat this upper “bearing” consists of two pieces of 1” thick phenolic drilled a suitable size and bolted to the underside of the deck.

The fiberglass tube which supports the rudder is equipped with two grease zerk fittings to lubricate the rudder post, and in the models that I have seen there are no bearings/ bushings in the tube....the rudder rides directly on the fiberglass.

These rudders were made for Cal by Foss Foam in S. Cal, and I believe later by Foss Foam in FL. Foss Foam is still in business in Florida, and I believe they are affiliated with Finco in S.Cal. Both companies can build you a replacement rudder if that is required, or they could supply an updated rudder design similar to one they supply for Cal 40s.

Hope this info helps. Feel free to respond if you have any questions.
DougR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 04:30   #5
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 41,236
Images: 241
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

The Foss Company [Foss Foam/FinCo Fabrications]
Post Office Box 3698
Newport Beach, CA 92659
2520 South Broadway
Santa Ana, CA 92707
Phone: (949) 646-0244
Fax: (714) 972 2832
Email: fosscompany@dslextreme.com

FinCo ➥ Rudders - FinCo Fabrication

Foss ➥ The Foss Company Makes Quality Sailboat Rudders and Dagger Boards that Can Be Shipped Anywhere in the World from Newport Beach, California

Another Cal 39 Rudder [replacement] ➥ Cal 20, Cal 39 sailboat rudders | Competition Composites Inc.
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 05:40   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
tkeithlu's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Carrabelle, Florida
Boat: Fiberglas shattering 44' steel trawler
Posts: 3,109
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

IPC, if there's that much of an aftermarket for replacement Cal 39 rudders, you are far from the first to need one, and no, they are not commonly repaired. The only way I could see to repair yours would be to cut out the bend and insert a smaller tube, but welding right at the top of the fiberglass rudder would be a no-go.

If you are going to pull soon, the consensus recommendation is that you order a new one to have ready when you drop the old one, and then go sailing. I'm sorry that you had the accident. Yeah, do keep a good watch for floating logs.
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know that you are in a hurry.
tkeithlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2021, 18:06   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Traverse City, MI
Boat: Alberg 30, Magellan 36 Ketch
Posts: 82
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

I had a Pearson 26 that had an issue with the rudder shaft being stiff. It didnt turn out to be bent, but the advice I received in the case that it was bent was to drop the rudder and cut the tube off at the rudder top, and epoxy in a 2-3ft section of smaller diameter tube, and then slide on a new piece of the original diameter tube and epoxy that in place.
It may sound like a lot but VERY doable.
DanielPerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 06:00   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
tkeithlu's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Carrabelle, Florida
Boat: Fiberglas shattering 44' steel trawler
Posts: 3,109
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

Daniel, I like that idea. It's my idea of inserting a smaller tube in the cut-off section, without the problem of welding next to fiberglass resin. Damn, why didn't I think of that?
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know that you are in a hurry.
tkeithlu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2021, 09:08   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Traverse City, MI
Boat: Alberg 30, Magellan 36 Ketch
Posts: 82
Re: Cal 39 rudder problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkeithlu View Post
Daniel, I like that idea. It's my idea of inserting a smaller tube in the cut-off section, without the problem of welding next to fiberglass resin. Damn, why didn't I think of that?
You may have some galvanic corrosion to deal with when initially dropping the rudder and tube out of the hull. Heat, PB blaster, and light shock (hitting with rubber mallet) will eventually free it up. On my pearson, it took me almost 2 hours to finally free the corrosion but it did finally come out. Probably one of the more challenging parts that you may face, honestly.
DanielPerry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cal, rudder

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Looking for a Replacement Rudder for a Cal 2-27 glennjamin Monohull Sailboats 5 04-08-2015 13:43
Cal 2-29 Rudder repair needed PJDSailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 28-04-2013 12:24
Looking for Cal 20 rudder Sailor Tom Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 22-02-2013 15:04
Backup Rudder on Cal 46 with a Custom Boarding Staircase edwmama Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 29-12-2009 13:19
Comparison: Cal 35 vs Cal 39 ggromack Monohull Sailboats 2 21-07-2009 14:49

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:22.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.