Butt Splicing from Battery to Engine??

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

... process whereby the molten solder partially dissolves into the copper base metal, forming a region that’s part solder and part copper. This creates intermetallic bonding and it’s the key to soldering. In most solders, the molten tin is the primary solvent that dissolves into the copper substrate and forms the intermetallic bond that electrically and mechanically stabilizes the joint....

I was aware that used solder is contaminated with copper but never researched it. Do you have a link, since I could not find anything that described the process as you suggest, or describes the interface. That the tin dissolves some of the surface does not make it like a weld, though it does suggest metalic bonding, which I always assumed.



Metalic bonding is plausible. Molecular bonding is not. Maybe that's seems like just grammar.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

It sounds like youd be suprised to know aircraft can suffer corrosion issues too.

No, actually I am not. I just think that perfection and real world sometimes do not meet eye to eye.

When I am in Papua New Guinea, or Nicaragua, or any of three dozen other places, we compromise on the perfection side of things to get the boat going again.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No, actually I am not. I just think that perfection and real world sometimes do not meet eye to eye.

When I am in Papua New Guinea, or Nicaragua, or any of three dozen other places, we compromise on the perfection side of things to get the boat going again.

Spoken like a true cruiser! So many of the folks mandating perfection in all things sailing have never left their home waters (or even their marina berth, or even own a yacht). I too have compromised when necessary, and for the most part, those compromises have been successful.

One that comes to mind is using a Nico press crimping tool to crimp battery lugs onto cables. GASP! Didn't look like Maine Sail's crimps but doesn't get hot, hasn't corroded and still works some years later. Have not felt the need to replace it... just have a look now and then to reassure myself that it hasn't gone crook on me.

I'm sure that Ramblin Rod would not approve...

Jim

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Spoken like a true cruiser! So many of the folks mandating perfection in all things sailing have never left their home waters (or even their marina berth, or even own a yacht). I too have compromised when necessary, and for the most part, those compromises have been successful.

One that comes to mind is using a Nico press crimping tool to crimp battery lugs onto cables. GASP! Didn't look like Maine Sail's crimps but doesn't get hot, hasn't corroded and still works some years later. Have not felt the need to replace it... just have a look now and then to reassure myself that it hasn't gone crook on me.

I'm sure that Ramblin Rod would not approve...

Jim

You, too, Jim?


For those who don't know, Maine Sail and Ramblin' Rod are (should be?) two different skippers, right?


Arrgh, the burdens of long-time forumites...

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by wingssail

No, actually I am not. I just think that perfection and real world sometimes do not meet eye to eye.

When I am in Papua New Guinea, or Nicaragua, or any of three dozen other places, we compromise on the perfection side of things to get the boat going again.

Yes sure. We have to do what we have to do.

Obviously this is ideal scenerio stuff.

However a lot of people even when they do have the opportunity to do it well still half arse it. Dont know, cant be bothered or dont want to spring for the cost and time to do it right.

PNG I lived and worked there for a number of years. It is the wild west.

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

From what I have seen of AYBC, USCG, EASA, FAA wiring guideines they are all shooting for the same aims and have mostly come up with the same conclusions how to achieve it. Again Id be interested to hear from you how different, moot and unrelated they are.

Don't care about your unqualified allusions to authority. As should have been obvious from my first post, I've arrived at a solution that works all the time. If you think that your, or any other 'certifying' method is 'better' hooray, you get the prize.

But if you actually live in the real world, you'll at least pay a small amount of attention to empirical evidence.

Or maybe not...

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Don't care about your unqualified allusions to authority. As should have been obvious from my first post, I've arrived at a solution that works all the time. If you think that your, or any other 'certifying' method is 'better' hooray, you get the prize.

But if you actually live in the real world, you'll at least pay a small amount of attention to empirical evidence.

Or maybe not...

Thats fine,

Only a suggestion of what the guys that are meant to be leading the push recommend.

I try to do as good as I can when I can. Hopefully that reduces issues later. I know thats so OCD of me. Ive been called worse.

But when you have to get it going when resources are limited of course you do what you can do.

Im happy you're happy with your way.

Carry on.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

... I try to do as good as I can when I can. Hopefully that reduces issues later.,,
... But when you have to get it going when resources are limited of course you do what you can do...

Originally Posted by Q Xopa

... However a lot of people even when they do have the opportunity to do it well still half arse it. Dont know, cant be bothered or dont want to spring for the cost and time to do it right...

Indeed!

[Q Xopa]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Don't care about your unqualified allusions to authority. As should have been obvious from my first post, I've arrived at a solution that works all the time. If you think that your, or any other 'certifying' method is 'better' hooray, you get the prize.

But if you actually live in the real world, you'll at least pay a small amount of attention to empirical evidence.

Or maybe not...

Woooah, touchie. I dont care about you not caring about my "unqualified allusions to authority". What ever that means?

I assume you mean 'illusions'? I didnt know I was claiming any qualifications. What authority? There is no 'authority' in pleasure yachting. AYBC is an advisory guidelines.

I'm not very smart so I happily take advice from those that are meant to know, AYBC or even the guy next to me in the boatyard or anchorage.

But apparently you are much smarter than me or the AYBC guys so you dont need to learn anything because you already know the answers. Good for you. As you say take a prize.

As for living in the real world, well as you say I have a lot to learn. Perhaps you can tell me how to start living in the real world. Thanks for letting me know that I am living a fantasy.

[GordMay]

It might be a little difficult to “... pay a small amount of attention to empirical evidence ...” when your empirical evidence seems to consist of “... a butt splice method that I'm sure most here would label cowboyish, and won't disclose it to save hassle (though I've used it for decades and never had a failure)...”.

I'm reminded of presidential candidate Richard Nixon's "secret plan" to get the United States out of the Vietnam War if elected in 1968.

[Boatguy30]

Any cable to a 57 hp yanmar and the battery bank is going to be way more than 40 amps! 400?? As a guess for a starter.

Did they charge you for a new cable and supply this butt jointed one or did they ad on to an old cable. Eitherway, I'd have never done it probably period. Or possibly reluctantly if the owner insisted .

Helped a guy with a broken 22' whaler in the Bahamas. Boat had been rerigged with a Honda from the original likely Mercury. Big corrosion in the butt joint between the battery switch and engine. Cable pulled apart when we touched the joint!

[Keithward]

Corrosion will cause resistance which causes heat and
hot enough and it’ll cook off the insulation. Also heating
and cooling will loosen any physical connection and
create a potential short which in that leg could easily
cause a fire even probably cause a fire
also if the connection comes apart you have exactly the same
issues to big a wire too much power
get rid of that connection
needs to be a straight run. And still have properly crimped end fittings
Jmho

[jrau18]

One thing I never see mentioned regarding crimped butt splices is their susceptibility to vibrations. The extra mass on the wire means that if unsupported/ not fixed in place, it can curve when the engine is running and it eventually fatigues the copper on either side of the splice.

So if you do decide that a butt splice is the ideal compromise for a situation, don't forget to fix the splice in place somehow, especially if it is near the engine. The worst case is a butt splice near the engine with the splice in the middle of a few inches run through space, with the wire supported a few inches in each direction of the crimp, these can vibrate like crazy.

[Keithward]

BycRick
Please explain with numbers what only 11% as conductive means??
Thanks

[Bycrick]

Good tin/lead solder has higher resistance than copper. If you took a piece of solder wire and a piece of similar-sized copper wire of equal length and measured the resistance with an ohmmeter, the solder wire will have much higher resistance. High resistance is just another way of saying low conductivity.

So one takes a piece of copper wire and slides it into a terminal lug. If it’s properly crimped, the electrical path from the wire to the terminal will be nothing but copper. If instead, one fills the terminal with solder, there will be a higher resistance between the wire and the terminal.

In low current circuits, it doesn’t make any difference. In high current wires, it makes a big difference.