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Old 11-07-2019, 14:56   #16
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Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

You know, looking at it again I think I might consider replacing that stainless fitting...... it’s deformed in quite a complex way and I think it would be tough to get it back to where it should be. Did it used to be a nice smooth bend around the bow and over the wood, and the impact has flattened it? The bend around the top bolt (the top bolt on the stem. That’s the bit on the outside of the bow, not the bit on deck) looks dodgy to me from the way it’s bent. At the very least have a good look at the back side of that plate when you take it off. Scrutinise it carefully. I think there’s a high chance of there being a crack there somewhere. Stainless steel sucks for that.
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Old 12-07-2019, 06:44   #17
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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It’s a polyester boat, so I’d be using polyester to fix it.

I’d use biaxial and chop strand, pretty heavy. (Layer of peel-ply over the top)

Looks like the hull is painted? If so I’d then fair it with microballoons/polyester resin and paint it. No need to bother with colour-matching and fairing gel coat.

Edit: then I’d stick a big, black, rubber bumper all round the bow so I can hit stuff in future with impunity and never have to go through it all again :-)
Thanks DM!
I have been lead to believe that old polyester is better repaired with epoxy (non-gelcoat-compatible) or vinylester (gelcoat compatible). Is this truth or tabloid fiction? That said, I have done a couple McGyver style additions to the trailer boat with an old can of Bondo branded polyester resin and scrap cloth that have withstood subzero winter and standing water with no issues.

@Tikiavenger-hoping all goes well with your project.
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Old 14-07-2019, 12:50   #18
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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@tikiavenger
-Does the 1300$ include the fiberglass structure structure+repairs to the gel coat, minus the woodwork?

@CF
-Would people be using polyester, epoxy, or vinylester resin for this repair?
-What reinforcements- plain cloth, stitched bi-ax, roving, chopped strand mat?

Thanks!
Yep, that's correct. And they said they would try and re secure the chainplate. I was told it would take two full days of work.
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Old 14-07-2019, 12:55   #19
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
It’s a polyester boat, so I’d be using polyester to fix it.

I’d use biaxial and chop strand, pretty heavy. (Layer of peel-ply over the top)

Looks like the hull is painted? If so I’d then fair it with microballoons/polyester resin and paint it. No need to bother with colour-matching and fairing gel coat.

Edit: then I’d stick a big, black, rubber bumper all round the bow so I can hit stuff in future with impunity and never have to go through it all again :-)
The hull is painted. I actually JUST hauled out a few months ago, and put on a fresh coat of some Brightside topside paint. It was more of an exercise is learning how to do repairs + trying out rolling + tipping, so I'm not too upset.

I spoke to another individual that recommended that I use carbon fiber (instead of fiber glass) + the West System resins I have. He claimed that carbon fiber would be way stronger than glass and not that much more expensive. @DefinitelyMe, any thoughts on that?

Also good point re: the bumpers, I think sticking some fenders up there will be helpful. My bow pulpit is pretty toast, so need to sort that out as well.
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Old 14-07-2019, 12:59   #20
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
You know, looking at it again I think I might consider replacing that stainless fitting...... it’s deformed in quite a complex way and I think it would be tough to get it back to where it should be. Did it used to be a nice smooth bend around the bow and over the wood, and the impact has flattened it? The bend around the top bolt (the top bolt on the stem. That’s the bit on the outside of the bow, not the bit on deck) looks dodgy to me from the way it’s bent. At the very least have a good look at the back side of that plate when you take it off. Scrutinise it carefully. I think there’s a high chance of there being a crack there somewhere. Stainless steel sucks for that.
I'll try and see if I can find an older picture of the bow, but yes IIRC, it was a nice smooth bend. I'll take a careful look at it. My bow pulpit actually took the initial impact (and got bent/crushed like a tin can), the impact to the bow was a secondary impact, so hopefully there are no cracks!
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Old 14-07-2019, 13:02   #21
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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Thanks DM!
I have been lead to believe that old polyester is better repaired with epoxy (non-gelcoat-compatible) or vinylester (gelcoat compatible). Is this truth or tabloid fiction? That said, I have done a couple McGyver style additions to the trailer boat with an old can of Bondo branded polyester resin and scrap cloth that have withstood subzero winter and standing water with no issues.

@Tikiavenger-hoping all goes well with your project.
Thanks @Spot! I'll definitely keep this thread updated with the progress.
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Old 23-07-2019, 18:03   #22
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Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

Hey, sorry for the delay in responding, I was at sea.

Yes you can definitely use epoxy. Honestly I have never worked with vinyl ester so I don’t know about that.

Epoxy will give a stronger bond, and if you already have some then sure, go ahead. The reasons I suggested that I would use polyester are:

1) it’s cheaper

2) it avoids any compatibility issues down the line if ever further work is needed

3) I couldn’t be certain that your boat was painted and not gelcoat. As you already know, gelcoat doesn’t bond well to epoxy repairs. In fact, anything polyester-based might not bond well to epoxy repairs. It’s possible to get epoxy gelcoats but they are not so good because they are prone to UV deterioration. Since your boat is painted however, this is not an issue.

4) epoxy is less tolerant to UV than polyester, and the location of the repair is in a high-UV area. But, paint it and it will be fine.

5) I find polyester more versatile and easier to work with. You can mix up batches of filler to the consistency you want way in advance and add the catalyst at the last moment. Not so with epoxy. You can also vary the amount of catalyst between 1% and 2% (although I have gone as high as 6% when I wanted it to go off really fast) to get a cure time that works for each job. If you want you can do a repair that will be hard in half an hour and ready for filler and fairing, which means you can get a lot more done in a shorter space of time with polyester.

Carbon fibre vs glass fibre: I think that for a repair like this there is no real benefit to using carbon fibre, and potentially quite an inconvenience since you will probably have less choice of cloth type. The main advantage of carbon fibre lies not in it’s strength, which is actually not that much greater than glass fibre, but in the ability to get a material that has similar strength to glass fibre with lower weight. However, even then it only makes sense if you intend to vacuum bag it and suck out every last bit of excess resin. Carbon is also more brittle than glass, meaning that it will be less tolerant of any future bumps. I am not an expert in this, just a guy who has an opinion, but in my opinion I think sticking with glass fibre will be the most convenient way to go (and the cheapest). I’ve only ever done carbon repairs on carbon boats myself.
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Old 28-07-2019, 11:45   #23
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

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Hey, sorry for the delay in responding, I was at sea.

Yes you can definitely use epoxy. Honestly I have never worked with vinyl ester so I don’t know about that.

Epoxy will give a stronger bond, and if you already have some then sure, go ahead. The reasons I suggested that I would use polyester are:

1) it’s cheaper

2) it avoids any compatibility issues down the line if ever further work is needed

3) I couldn’t be certain that your boat was painted and not gelcoat. As you already know, gelcoat doesn’t bond well to epoxy repairs. In fact, anything polyester-based might not bond well to epoxy repairs. It’s possible to get epoxy gelcoats but they are not so good because they are prone to UV deterioration. Since your boat is painted however, this is not an issue.

4) epoxy is less tolerant to UV than polyester, and the location of the repair is in a high-UV area. But, paint it and it will be fine.

5) I find polyester more versatile and easier to work with. You can mix up batches of filler to the consistency you want way in advance and add the catalyst at the last moment. Not so with epoxy. You can also vary the amount of catalyst between 1% and 2% (although I have gone as high as 6% when I wanted it to go off really fast) to get a cure time that works for each job. If you want you can do a repair that will be hard in half an hour and ready for filler and fairing, which means you can get a lot more done in a shorter space of time with polyester.

Carbon fibre vs glass fibre: I think that for a repair like this there is no real benefit to using carbon fibre, and potentially quite an inconvenience since you will probably have less choice of cloth type. The main advantage of carbon fibre lies not in it’s strength, which is actually not that much greater than glass fibre, but in the ability to get a material that has similar strength to glass fibre with lower weight. However, even then it only makes sense if you intend to vacuum bag it and suck out every last bit of excess resin. Carbon is also more brittle than glass, meaning that it will be less tolerant of any future bumps. I am not an expert in this, just a guy who has an opinion, but in my opinion I think sticking with glass fibre will be the most convenient way to go (and the cheapest). I’ve only ever done carbon repairs on carbon boats myself.
Hope your travels are going well! Appreciate your opinions. This past weekend, I started on the repairs here are some pictures of how the repair went:

















I'm now trying to figure out how to fix the stemhead/bowchainplate issue. There's a piece of wood/teak that's secured right above the deck and then the stemhead is on top. The stemhead is pretty bent + twisted and fit back in place properly. I'm wondering if this can be repaired? or should I just try to find a replacement part?








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Old 29-07-2019, 05:50   #24
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

I would take that to a welder/fabricator to have a new one made. It’s old and stainless likes to crack as it ages.
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Old 05-08-2019, 13:57   #25
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Re: Bow fiberglass repair + bow chainplate questions

Nice job! I might have increased the bonding surface area a little by grinding back a bit more but it looks really nice and should last for ever.

Next time you might find it nicer to fill the hole first with something like cheap spray-foam. Then you fair the foam (from the outside) and get a nice surface to lay the glass onto.

Honestly, the stainless might be OK, it might not. Whether to replace it depends on the kind of sailing you're doing and what your budget is like. Anything made from stainless is likely to be expensive, but my non-expert eye thinks yours might not be too bad of a job - a piece of flat bar bent to shape with a piece of channel welded to it. Couple of holes drilled. Maybe not so bad.

For myself, I wouldn't trust it, but then I'm going to some pretty remote spots.

(After two recent rig failures of 2 1/2 year old stainless toggles due to crevice corrosion and fatigue I am perhaps unusually untrusting of stainless steel compared to most. If only bronze was still used extensively........)
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