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Old 27-05-2023, 03:49   #1
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Bonding

My boat has a bonding system for all the tru hulls and in water metals. It looks like it needs a little attention. My question is once all those tru hulls are connected ultimately where does the cable go, what is the termination?
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Old 27-05-2023, 04:05   #2
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Re: Bonding

Mine terminates at one of the keel bolts. I have an external lead keel.
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Old 27-05-2023, 05:59   #3
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Re: Bonding

Bonding systems are not usually simple linear configurations, so it’s hard to say where they “terminate” They tie all the underwater metals together, and—somewhere—connect to a zinc.

Mine “terminate” to the rudder post, and there are a pair of zincs attached to the metal structure of the rudder.
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Old 27-05-2023, 06:36   #4
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Re: Bonding

Personally I feel it unwise to bond things that don't normally have any current to any system that might
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Old 28-05-2023, 01:58   #5
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Re: Bonding

Steve D’Antonio wrote an excellent article on “Bonding Basics”, for Professional BoatBuilder magazine.
The best corrosion protection for underwater metal fittings is a well-designed and maintained bonding system.
Available here ➥ https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/w...tems138_05.pdf

See also “Bonding Systems and Corrosion Prevention”
https://stevedmarineconsulting.com/b...on-prevention/
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Old 28-05-2023, 06:10   #6
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Re: Bonding

I didn't read the article as i have read more than enough of them. But I can say a poorly maintained bonding system came close to sinking my first boat by causing corrosion of the head outlet fitting to point of only thing holding it together was caulking
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Old 28-05-2023, 06:24   #7
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Re: Bonding

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I didn't read the article as i have read more than enough of them. But I can say a poorly maintained bonding system came close to sinking my first boat by causing corrosion of the head outlet fitting to point of only thing holding it together was caulking
Poorly maintained systems of many kinds cause serious problems. Bonding systems are no different.

I am not sure exactly what your point is here. If you are suggesting that bonding systems need care and maintenance (like every other part of a boat), I completely agree. But if you are condemning bonding systems categorically because yours was not maintained properly that's not thinking clearly.
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Old 28-05-2023, 11:11   #8
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Re: Bonding

my point is, if the valve had not been bonded it would have fine as the bonding made it have a problem
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Old 28-05-2023, 11:16   #9
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Re: Bonding

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my point is, if the valve had not been bonded it would have fine as the bonding made it have a problem
Yeah bonding of thruhulls seems like a solution in search of a problem. If thruhulls and valves are made of proper materials and installed properly (flange/collar) they will outlive both the boat and the owners.

The European boat builders love bonding because it lets them throw a cheap brass valve on a boat and say it is protected.
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Old 28-05-2023, 12:32   #10
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Re: Bonding

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I didn't read the article as i have read more than enough of them. But I can say a poorly maintained bonding system came close to sinking my first boat by causing corrosion of the head outlet fitting to point of only thing holding it together was caulking
I can't say I've ever "maintained" a bonding system. So this has me concerned.

* What is normally included in routine maintenance for a bonding system.

* What about a poorly maintained system causes corrosion? I would think the primary "failure" would be a bonding wire which is not effectively connected -- which would make the fitting in question no longer part of the bonding system.

On my current boat, I have one metal thru hull, and it isn't bonded (at least, I think not). But my last boat was 100% metal and bonded.
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Old 28-05-2023, 12:34   #11
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Re: Bonding

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I can't say I've ever "maintained" a bonding system. So this has me concerned.

* What is normally included in routine maintenance for a bonding system.

* What about a poorly maintained system causes corrosion? I would think the primary "failure" would be a bonding wire which is not effectively connected -- which would make the fitting in question no longer part of the bonding system.

On my current boat, I have one metal thru hull, and it isn't bonded (at least, I think not). But my last boat was 100% metal and bonded.
I think the critical failure would be the bonding wire on the anode failing or other galvanic corrosion issues resulting in higher than normal anode loss. Either way once the anode is no longer part of the system the rest of the system is high a galvanic corrosion hyper accelerator.

This is why unless someone has a serious love for brass fittings below the waterline I question the utility of bonding over isolation. Thruhulls connected via marine hose in a nromally dry hull are very highly isolated from other underwater fittings. If the materials are corrosion resistant (i.e. bronze or marine grade composites) and they involve a proper flange/collar they are probably going to outlive the boat owners and good chance they outlive the boat owner's kids.
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Old 28-05-2023, 14:51   #12
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Re: Bonding

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Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie View Post
Bonding systems are not usually simple linear configurations, so it’s hard to say where they “terminate” They tie all the underwater metals together, and—somewhere—connect to a zinc.

Mine “terminate” to the rudder post, and there are a pair of zincs attached to the metal structure of the rudder.
That's what I needed to know they terminate at a zinc
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Old 28-05-2023, 15:30   #13
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Re: Bonding

There's "bonding" and then there's "Bonding", and things change if AC power is brought aboard.
Sometimes bonding can prevent electrical shock.
Sometimes bonding can protect underwater metals.
Sometimes bonding can destroy underwater metals.
Sometimes bonding can attack interior metals.
Sometimes bonding can exacerbate the effects of a lighting strike.
Zincs/anodes are not a substitute for proper wiring practice.
The "One size fits all" approach seldom works.
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Old 29-05-2023, 15:11   #14
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Re: Bonding

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I think the critical failure would be the bonding wire on the anode failing or other galvanic corrosion issues resulting in higher than normal anode loss. Either way once the anode is no longer part of the system the rest of the system is high a galvanic corrosion hyper accelerator.
If I have a lone bronze fitting and bond it to an anode (I live on the Chesapeake and refuse to even use the "Z" word, let alone buy one...), all is good. If the wire to the anode fails, it is isolated and all is good.

If I have 10 bronze fittings tied to an anode, all is good. If the wire to the anode fails, I have 10 bronze fittings tied together. How is this worse than having 10 independent bronze fittings?

Now, if you also tie it to something else.... [emoji33]
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Old 29-05-2023, 16:57   #15
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Re: Bonding

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If I have a lone bronze fitting and bond it to an anode (I live on the Chesapeake and refuse to even use the "Z" word, let alone buy one...), all is good. If the wire to the anode fails, it is isolated and all is good.

If I have 10 bronze fittings tied to an anode, all is good. If the wire to the anode fails, I have 10 bronze fittings tied together. How is this worse than having 10 independent bronze fittings?

Now, if you also tie it to something else.... [emoji33]
If it is all good then why have it to begin with which is kinda the point.

Of course if you have all 10 bronze fittings you are good there is no galvanic potential. Then again if you have 10 bronze fittings there is no point to bonding to begin with. The whole idea of bonding is combining dissimilar metals to an anode so the anode not the various metals is sacrificed. If the link to the anode fails or the anode itself fails then you just created a turbo booster for galvanic corrosion.

If everything underwater is all bronze then yeah failure of the zinc won't matter it won't matter because it is completely useless to begin with. In any scenario where it actually matters losing it would be catastrophic.
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