Boatyard etiquette question

[SailingHarmonie]

We're on the hard, with the usual million jobs to do. It just doesn't stop, as most of you know. I don't have time for my own work, much less worry about someone else... yet still.

I didn't notice what exactly was happening a couple stalls down the way where a DIY project was underway with lots of noise and grinding on a 28 foot bilge keeler. A couple days in I walk by and see...

It is one of those stupid boats where the prop shaft can not be removed out the back of the boat because it runs straight into the rudder skeg. The only solution is to move the engine... Right? Apparently not. In a fit of creativeness this boat owner has ground away more than half of the aluminum skeg, and FRP ruddder to get a straight lead into the cutless bearing, and then back filled it with a mix of random glass fiber and epoxy.

WTF??? This is a bilge keel boat. The rudder skeg i designed to supplrt the weight of the boat when it takes to ground. Not to mention just the routine stresses of sailing.

What's done is done... But would you say anything about how you wouldn't ever sail that boat across anything other than a millpond? Or just smile and shake your head? Something in between?

[Benz]

As hard as it is to mind your own business (not you specifically, I mean in general, myself included), it's best to walk away with a frozen grin.
Maybe take incognito pictures and make a coffee table book one day of really bad botayard ideas.

[Pete7]

My rudder is about 8" short of the keel depth, deliberately so she can be dried out on a flat surface.

However, cutting chunks out of an aluminium skeg, oh my Was the whole hull aluminium?

Pete

[sailorboy1]

their boat, they can grind it much as they want

[barnakiel]

Well. One could drop the rudder while still in slings.


Just saying.



Grinding into skeg and rudder OK with me - as long as it is NOT MY BOAT.


b.

[JPA Cate]

Tough one. Because butting out is usually preferable. However, if you are concerned for their well being, you could ask what their plans are for the future, and mention your concern about the need for remediation of the structural damage. It may or may not help. But if they go out and get drowned, if it would be on your conscience, then yes. Either speak to them or write it out and leave it anonymously. Then, you've at least helped yourself, and that's within your purview.

Ann

[Sailing55]

Be wary of giving advice...

Wise men don't need it...

Fools won't heed it...

Benjamin Franklin

[Fore and Aft]

Sailing Harmonie I would just keep walking. There's a fair chance you could end up getting an earful or being labelled the boatyard know it all. Still maybe have a chat with the guy and see if he's open to advise. Often when I do a survey there's a certain type of person who is not interested in listening. The other week I tried to point out some faults on an owner's boat. He bluntly told me he's not playing that game. So I shut my mouth and just included them all in the written report.
If you want to talk about bad repairs I have seen a power boat with fist size holes. The owner just smoothed the edges with a random orbital then fiberglassed a patch on the inside and outside with polyester and chop strand. Luckily the boat never goes anywhere and I just chuckle to myself everytime I sail past her.
Cheers

[SailFastTri]

Maybe just idle conversation:
Q) “Hey, I saw you ground out the skeg to get the shaft out. Is that skeg designed to support the boat if it dries out?”
A) “yes”
Q) “Will your repairs have as much strength?”
A) “yes” or “no, I don’t plan for it to support the boat”
You:
OK cool. Good luck with it.

[MicHughV]

Boy oh boy.. I could write a book about the many boatyard issues I've seen or experienced.
There is simply no telling what the outcome will be on stuff I've seen done.

I've learned to keep my mouth shut and offer the " oh, that's too bad" opinion when some or other project goes south.

Stay focused on your own boat and particular task at hand so as to get out of there as soon as you are able is my 2c.

[rognvald]

After 35 years in boatyards, my best advice is: mind your own business. If not, watch how quickly both the boatyard and the boat owner(s) label you as the problem. Get your work done and get out. This is no place to make friends.
Rognvald

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

We're on the hard, with the usual million jobs to do. It just doesn't stop, as most of you know. I don't have time for my own work, much less worry about someone else... yet still.

I didn't notice what exactly was happening a couple stalls down the way where a DIY project was underway with lots of noise and grinding on a 28 foot bilge keeler. A couple days in I walk by and see...

It is one of those stupid boats where the prop shaft can not be removed out the back of the boat because it runs straight into the rudder skeg. The only solution is to move the engine... Right? Apparently not. In a fit of creativeness this boat owner has ground away more than half of the aluminum skeg, and FRP ruddder to get a straight lead into the cutless bearing, and then back filled it with a mix of random glass fiber and epoxy.

WTF??? This is a bilge keel boat. The rudder skeg i designed to supplrt the weight of the boat when it takes to ground. Not to mention just the routine stresses of sailing.

What's done is done... But would you say anything about how you wouldn't ever sail that boat across anything other than a millpond? Or just smile and shake your head? Something in between?

Kudos for posting such an exquisitely complicated moral question. Why I love CF.

There is no easy answer to this.

On the one hand, no one ever appreciates help being corrected with this kind of thing. Oh, and not only that -- we may also have unconscious bad motives for lecturing someone who has done something fantastically stupid like this. And it's like a tarball -- you get started, and it will be a black hole of nerves and time before you get shed of it, and no guaranty that it does anyone any good.

Lots of good reasons to just keep walking!

And yet, and yet . . .

I would not walk away.

I would do my best to calmly and factually explain to the guy what he's getting himself into. Offer to help correct it.

Knowing full well what a thankless task that is. He will hate me for pointing it out, and 90% chance he will ignore whatever I tell him, after wasting a ton of my time arguing. Bystanders will consider me an a****ole for not minding my own business. There is zero chance of any upside for me.

And yet it's the right thing to do. And the rightest things are always those things where there is zero chance that it will ever be pleasant.


But how would you feel if you just walked by, and then read in the paper a few months from now how he drowned when his boat went down? Moral codes are different, but mine would require action here.

[rognvald]

"And yet it's the right thing to do. And the rightest things are always those things where there is zero chance that it will ever be pleasant." Dockhead

Hi, D,
In my experience an old adage aptly applies:
'No good dead goes unpunished."
Cheers, Rognvald

[JPA Cate]

A former moderator here told me that having a concept of personal honor is rare these days....

And yet, one's own concept of "right behavior" really goes down to one's self-concept. And, if, in your books it is "wrong" to make no effort to possibly save a life. You have to accept that perhaps "no good deed goes unpunished." Ime, it has been roughly 50-50, so I'd just ignore that aspect of this decision.

No matter how polite one is able to be, no one likes being told what s/he did will require remediation for the boat to be safe. He could plan to take his granddaughters sailing, would the possible deaths of children be a factor in your decision?

To me, it comes down to if your conscience won't like it, and the downside isn't too dire--they're probably not going to kill you in broad daylight--then you have to try to help. But you get to back off, also, if you don't like how it's going. Your best effort at assisting can have them back in business, safely, and both of you "win" that way. If not, "c'est la vie." If you do nothing, having been concerned, and there is loss of life due to boat failure, you'll probably get over it, but with lowered self esteem. Not a good outcome to me. Ymmv.

Sailing Harmonie's concerns could also be put in writing, along with remediation suggestions, and delivered to the boat while the skipper's getting his evening shower, which might lessen the confrontation possibilities.

Ann

[kayakerChuck]

I build boat canvas, and I'm on all sorts of boats in all sorts of places. I try to point out safety concerns. Mostly, I'm told to get lost, but I sleep well.

The strangest was building new canvas on a new boat, fresh from the factory. It was the owner's last boat. The owners were in their 80's and downsizing to a 25'. Both were lifetime boatowners, with money and brains.

There was a mature black widow spider on their boat. I pointed it out to them- black widows are not common near Detroit. They were quiet sure I was wrong.

I tried. I slept well.

Personally, I'd mention it.