Beginner question on fixing damaged balsa core

[Baba Buoy]

Remove port, gouge out as much wet core as you can, fill with thickened epoxy. Replace port. Don't hire someone to do job - do it yourself. Get on with your life. Most of strength is in fiberglass layers, not core. Lots of anal retentiveness regarding this subject.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Wild guess is 20-40K depending on how much interior needs to be removed for access to inner skin...

So a repair not dissimilar to this yacht, click on the "problems" link.


Prospero

[Pete O Static]

Originally Posted by Baba Buoy

Remove port, gouge out as much wet core as you can, fill with thickened epoxy. Replace port. Don't hire someone to do job - do it yourself. Get on with your life. Most of strength is in fiberglass layers, not core. Lots of anal retentiveness regarding this subject.

LOl...now there is a quality repair right there which depending on the size of the affected area, will likely create a void. Any subsequent surveyor who sounds the area will go 'WTF?" If you're gonna go the MacGyver route, might as well just fill with expanding foam from Home Depot and epoxy the top. Reinstall portlight, nobody the wiser.

This is the problem with the used boat market.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Rohan

OK, after chartering/borrowing/sharing boats for years I'm finally buying my own. I never really had to worry about maintenance before.

I'm purchasing a Hunter 36. This model is full glass below the waterline, and balsa core above.

A surveyor went over the boat and told me that it most likely has moisture inside the core along the starboard side of the hull. He can't say for sure, but by tapping on the hull, he found several areas that sound inconsistent (he also checked another boat of the same model for comparison). His little electrometer also suggests moisture inside. He says it most likely got in through the edges of the portlight.

He doesn't think it's a terrible problem right now, but he recommends sealing it up so that no more moisture gets in.

OK, this leads to my questions. I asked these of the surveyor too, but he wouldn't give me a clear answer:

1. Worst case scenario - if we were to do surgery, and replace the core, what would something like this potentially cost to fix?
   
2. I can revise my offer on the boat after the survey. In my situation, if all other things are fine, would you still buy the boat? What kind of reduction in price would you ask for?
   
3. Instead of just sealing up the leaks, wouldn't it make sense to drain out all water and use some kind of air dryers first?
   
4. And if I just ignored it and it went untreated - what is the worst that could happen?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Wait a minute.

First confirm that the hull side in question is balsa cored. If not and it is just a FRP hull, with an FRP liner, and a gap between the two that got wet due to a leaking port, it is a non issue. Seal the port, and sail the boat for 50 years!(or until a catastrophic issue occurs elsewise.

If it is balsa cored composite, and the area affected is only a few inches in from the moisture ingress point, it is still a very easy fix (for someone who knows why they are doing.)

If it is a balsa cored hull and it is saturated, rotting, and delaminating from keel to toerail, leave it to be someone else’s problem.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Baba Buoy

Remove port, gouge out as much wet core as you can, fill with thickened epoxy. Replace port. Don't hire someone to do job - do it yourself. Get on with your life. Most of strength is in fiberglass layers, not core. Lots of anal retentiveness regarding this subject.

I’m sorry, but I don’t believe you understand understand composite construction at all and are giving terrible advice.

Anyone who does understand knows that the balsa core adds incredibly to the strength of a composite, and if rotted can seriously jeopardize the integrity of the composite.

There are a few rare cases (e.g. Cabo Rico) where the hull lay up is solid glass, way more than adequate on its own, and a layer of balsa was applied and skinned over, for its insulation (heat loss and acoustic damping) qualities.

This is definitely not the case for an average production boat, like a Beneteau, C&C, Mirage, Whitby, or what have you.

If their hull cores are rotten, you can’t even tune the rig properly because the whole boat flexes too much, and impact resistance is next to nothing.

[Snore]

Rohan

In understand how you feel this is a deal. What Jim said still applies don’t.

If you are hell bent, have someone give you an estimate and then add 75%. Then you will likely have enough. Why not look at a Tartan 37. There are several out there that are not badly priced. These boats are very well boat and have a nice speed to them.

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

There are a few rare cases (e.g. Cabo Rico) where the hull lay up is solid glass, way more than adequate on its own, and a layer of balsa was applied and skinned over, for its insulation (heat loss and acoustic damping) qualities.

Same (to lesser degree) with my Tartan 40 and I believe with older Tartan 37s. Relatively thick outer skin that provides most of needed strength. There are very few documented core issues in those older Tartan models and the Hull is very stiff and quiet

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Pegu Club

What Jim said, lots of boats out there that are structurally sound. Don’t start out behind the eight ball.

Fair winds,

No truer words were ever spoken. Ask anyone who owns a boat.

[dakno]

H36 has a good reputation, especially a well kept one. I have heard many stories of conflicting evidence of moisture inside a hull. 2 instruments will disagree with each other. Having owned/ sailed several Hunters over the last 30 years I don't believe there is a serious problem there. Some of the 09 Hunters had some sloppy work, company was going bankrupt and under finical stress, not all though. Go to hunterowners.com and ask owners of that vintage boat and you will learn everything you need to know. Use the survey suggestion of maybe balsa being compromised to get a better price, I don't believe it is. Good luck

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

You could contact Hunter and ask if the core is protected around the portlights but In my opinion, you could potentially spend a ton of money to fix the issue at hand only to have it repeat elsewhere on the boat. The only reason the integrity of the core should be compromised is from a collision or other such damage. Maybe this did happen at some point and a very good cosmetic job was done?

The surveyor considered that, but didn't find any evidence of a collision. There was a hollow sounding area about 2 feet across along the hull just a little forward of the portlight. And then in that area, and around the edges of the portlight, the electric meter showed small amounts of moisture. As I said, he didn't think it was a critical flaw. His words were: "I've seen a lot worse. if you seal it off and don't let any more moisture in, it could even last 30 years, but this will be an issue when you try to sell the boat."


Before I scuttle this deal, I'm going to let the seller know I can't progress unless we seriously renegotiate the price. We actually haven't finished the survey yet, because we plan a sea trial next week.

Originally Posted by Snore

Rohan

In understand how you feel this is a deal. What Jim said still applies don’t.

If you are hell bent, have someone give you an estimate and then add 75%. Then you will likely have enough.

I am willing to pay a little more to fix it - but I do want to know what that would be.

Why not look at a Tartan 37. There are several out there that are not badly priced. These boats are very well boat and have a nice speed to them.

I have considered sooooo many other boats. I love Tartans, but the ones that are suitable for me are either out of my price range at this time or are too old (since I'm new to boat ownership I want to go with a relatively recent one). I wasn't initially looking at Hunters, but the 36 checks every box I'm looking for except for speed.

[chowdan]

It seems like your hell bent on this particular hunter.

I would say if your not scared away yet at what could easily be 30-60k in repairs, contact a few yards that would be able to inspect the boat and give a rough idea on what is involved in the repair as well as what they suspect itd cost.

As someone else said, take the estimate and add 75% to it and you'll have enough to pay for it.

Personally, I would walk from the boat. My boat I got 8t for a great deal, have spent the last year rebuilding it. I would rather walk from the project and buy something that that is structurally sound. If you were to seal the portlights, you have to realize the moisture in the core WILL spread over time and become far worse.

One thing to consider is that any electronics or equipment can be added to a boat.

Dont let your first boat be a boat that is cheap to buy, yet structurally un sound and potentially in the future causing something to happen that turns you away from sailing forever

Originally Posted by Rohan

The surveyor considered that, but didn't find any evidence of a collision. There was a hollow sounding area about 2 feet across along the hull just a little forward of the portlight. And then in that area, and around the edges of the portlight, the electric meter showed small amounts of moisture. As I said, he didn't think it was a critical flaw. His words were: "I've seen a lot worse. if you seal it off and don't let any more moisture in, it could even last 30 years, but this will be an issue when you try to sell the boat."


Before I scuttle this deal, I'm going to let the seller know I can't progress unless we seriously renegotiate the price. We actually haven't finished the survey yet, because we plan a sea trial next week.




I am willing to pay a little more to fix it - but I do want to know what that would be.





I have considered sooooo many other boats. I love Tartans, but the ones that are suitable for me are either out of my price range at this time or are too old (since I'm new to boat ownership I want to go with a relatively recent one). I wasn't initially looking at Hunters, but the 36 checks every box I'm looking for except for speed.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by Rohan

... are either out of my price range at this time or are too old (since I'm new to boat ownership I want to go with a relatively recent one).

You say you are a beginner and new to boat ownership, and you want a relatively recent boat (maybe thinking that it would be relatively free of trouble). But you seem to be happy to take the risk of buying a boat with potential structural problems. Many experienced sailors consider this type of problems to be a big risk that might delay your project a lot and cost you a lot.

I'm not a very experienced sailor myself, but I'd try to avoid any such (potential) major problems, and instead maybe accept a few less costly risks (and maybe consider also older boats, that might be made of solid GRP).

[Mike Banks]

Sealing existing moisture into a balsa cored vessel sounds to me like advice from a marine surveyor recommended by a broker.

There is NO WAY that is a good idea.

You need to remove ALL of the moist wood, dry the space using a blower and alcohol or acetone, then when it is completely dry, either replacing the balsa core with any of the proprietary closed cell foam cores made for sandwich construction and thickened slow-cure epoxy resin.

This will not be cheap--but it will fix your problem in THAT ONE place--there may well be others.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Pete O Static

A quality builder would never run a balsa core to a portlight edge without having a substantial epoxy barrier between the portlight edge and the balsa core itself.

They didn't

[LivingFree]

I agree with those who are suggesting you walk away from the deal. I walked away from a boat we loved because of a wet deck. It's just not worth the trouble. It will cost a lot more and take a lot longer than any estimate you get. The question you should, in my opinion, be asking is if the owner knew about the problem but did not disclose it to you. If he did know about the problem, what else has he not mentioned.