Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-01-2022, 14:47   #16
MJH
Registered User
 
MJH's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42ac
Posts: 904
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ON3ZTT View Post
I would like to replace my old (2003) Raymarine wheel pilot by a better performing and up to date Raymarine autopilo, on a Jeanneau Voyage 11.2 1991.
It seems physically impossible to install an electric linear drive RM pilot. The length of the linear drive and the necessary 250mm tiller arm can't be built in unless major cutup of bulkheads and moving other items in the space afr around the rudder stock. Really a pity....
My boat has a rack and pinion steering system with a rod moving a 190mm tillerarm on the rudder stock.

QUESTION: is a RM linear drive autopilot unit reallythat much better then a latest generation RM wheel pilot? On accuracy, heavy wind performance,...?
Thanks for your opinions or advices,

Jan, SY Goudurix, ON3ZTT, Belgium
Yes, underdeck autopilots are better than wheeled pilots.

The Raymarine Linear drives come in two sizes, the selection based upon the boats gross weight as I recall. YES, the length of the type 2L is longer than the shorter one, and they also make a hydraulic version which requires less length if you don't mind hydraulics. My boat came with a 2L that was totally misinstalled and never worked properly. I finally took it out and reinstalled it as close as possible to the specifications in the only possible location available with the help of a ABYC tech.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH
MJH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 15:42   #17
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: TRT 1200
Posts: 6,114
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Why do autopilot manufacturers base their autopilots on a boats weight? Wouldnít it be better to base it on how light or heavy the helm is?
smj is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 17:52   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Tampa Bay
Boat: 1998 Catalina 320
Posts: 214
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Raymarine's wheel pilots. including the EV 100, use belts and plastic gears.



In my experience, they're good to about 20 knots in most conditions, as long as the boat is not hard-pressed. After that, you're behind the wheel.


If you try to use one in rough conditions, you will be footing the bill for repairs.
Shanachie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 18:33   #19
Moderator
 
roverhi's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 7,480
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

If ups want a wheel pilot with plenty of power might look at the CPT. Not the most advanced electronics but the power to steer a boat in most conditions. CPT Autopilot Inc.

Have had a couple of the Raymarine wheel pilots. They did okay powering but didn't have the oomph to steer the boat under sail. Boat had a barn door rudder that took some force to steer but nothing excessive. Might work on balanced spade rudder but not if the rudder takes some oomph to steer.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 18:57   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Portsmouth, VA
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 492
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

I very recently installed s RM wheel pilot on a 38' boat. My primary "autopilot" is a windvane and the wheel pilot is used for very light wind and motoring when the windvane won't work.

The wheel pilot is very flimsy plastic cheap crap. It suits my needs and was easy to install, but i was really surprised how poorly built it is. Its s shame, its s brilliant design, just needs to have at least a few metal parts in it. It is all plastic inside. It doesn't seem like something that will last very long or be reliable.

It definitely slips quite a lot when the wind picks up. Also, it shipped with the wrong sized belt, and Raymarine support was less than useless and despite it being brand new i had to buy a replacement belt because they just wanted to email me the manual and close the ticket.

As far as performance holding a course, etc, it does a better job than my windvane when in windvane mode or hold a heading mode. In track mode where it is supposed to follow a route from the chart plotter, it does poorly. It hunts around the course over correcting and sailing an "S" crossing back and forth over the route. It ships without a rudder sensor, and i did not add one. I think it is needed for track mode.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2022, 23:04   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Im swimming in the Atlantic Ocean right now.
Boat: Approx 25 ft of blubber and muscle with big fins / natural selection- current state of evolution
Posts: 217
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
If ups want a wheel pilot with plenty of power might look at the CPT. Not the most advanced electronics but the power to steer a boat in most conditions. CPT Autopilot Inc.

Have had a couple of the Raymarine wheel pilots. They did okay powering but didn't have the oomph to steer the boat under sail. Boat had a barn door rudder that took some force to steer but nothing excessive. Might work on balanced spade rudder but not if the rudder takes some oomph to steer.

the CPT looks interesting. I'm seriously considering one of their units. It says will deliver 86 ft/lbs torque to the wheel. Its probably no comparison to a hydraulic unit but might be plenty in most weather? I dont think they are designed for extreme weather though.
BAD ORCA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 07:07   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Hunnter Legend 37.5
Posts: 758
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

I have a CPT and I love it! Had it for 10 years. I single hand most of the time. Great customer service. Jeff is awesome and they stand behind their product. That said, when comparing CPT to my friends hydraulic ram, there is a difference.
bensolomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2022, 07:31   #23
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 16,052
Images: 14
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wholybee View Post
As far as performance holding a course, etc, it does a better job than my windvane when in windvane mode or hold a heading mode. In track mode where it is supposed to follow a route from the chart plotter, it does poorly. It hunts around the course over correcting and sailing an "S" crossing back and forth over the route. It ships without a rudder sensor, and i did not add one. I think it is needed for track mode.
I noticed a big difference after doing some changes and installing a rudder reference unit. I would say they are essential for a RM wheel pilot.

BTW, the older black wheel drive has brass gears inside rather than plastic. Only found out after I changed or would have kept the older drive.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2022, 07:57   #24
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NJ
Boat: Mariner 38 Pilot House
Posts: 92
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Iím on my second wheel pilot and itís working fine on my 38í 24,000lb boat. Been in some serious weather and havenít experienced the issues others are pointing out. Iím guessing my helm is light by comparison.

The newest generation (what I have) is much better than the older unit. My boat doesnít waver or have any issues maintaining a course it actually does a better job than a person at the helm.

I have space issues as well so thatís why I stayed with the wheel pilot.
mcon12000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2022, 10:09   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 295
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Yes, nearly any below decks pilot is better than even a new wheel pilot. They are pretty limited in there ability. And dependability. In fact Raymarine would not be my first choice of any pilot.
merrydolphin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2022, 10:14   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: NJ
Boat: Mariner 38 Pilot House
Posts: 92
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcon12000 View Post
Iím on my second wheel pilot and itís working fine on my 38í 24,000lb boat. Been in some serious weather and havenít experienced the issues others are pointing out. Iím guessing my helm is light by comparison.

The newest generation (what I have) is much better than the older unit. My boat doesnít waver or have any issues maintaining a course it actually does a better job than a person at the helm.

I have space issues as well so thatís why I stayed with the wheel pilot.
For the record I have a rudder position sensor which is essential based on my experience.
mcon12000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2022, 10:18   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 1,099
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ON3ZTT View Post
I am now looking deeply into the JEFA Direct Drive DD1 which is compatible with major controller brands, and has a better footprint than an electric or hydraulic linear drive.

Waiting for some details from Jefa and detailed measurements of my current system (tiller arm; angles; available space)

Jan
I installed one of these on my old boat and it was fantastic.
__________________
www.saildivefish.ca
alctel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2022, 11:42   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: UK
Boat: Summer Twins 25
Posts: 432
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ON3ZTT View Post
I would like to replace my old (2003) Raymarine wheel pilot by a better performing and up to date Raymarine autopilo, on a Jeanneau Voyage 11.2 1991.
It seems physically impossible to install an electric linear drive RM pilot. The length of the linear drive and the necessary 250mm tiller arm can't be built in unless major cutup of bulkheads and moving other items in the space afr around the rudder stock. Really a pity....
My boat has a rack and pinion steering system with a rod moving a 190mm tillerarm on the rudder stock.

QUESTION: is a RM linear drive autopilot unit reallythat much better then a latest generation RM wheel pilot? On accuracy, heavy wind performance,...?
Thanks for your opinions or advices,

Jan
SY Goudurix
ON3ZTT
Belgium
Avoid the tiller pilot linear drive if you can, the drive length on the new EV100 is that the correct name, anyway the drive length is not long enough and will leave you with 12í angle available in each direction, the former ST2000+ tiller pilot has slightly longer drive, but the difference is massive.

Either way be sure to have a RM MFD to update the firmware before use - I have posted some issues here with my EV100 but I only have the option of a tiller drive.

Performance is ok but I can easily just lift the tiller pilot off and do at every tack.
Shaneesprit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2022, 06:01   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 7
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ON3ZTT View Post
I am now looking deeply into the JEFA Direct Drive DD1 which is compatible with major controller brands, and has a better footprint than an electric or hydraulic linear drive.

Waiting for some details from Jefa and detailed measurements of my current system (tiller arm; angles; available space)

Jan
I used to have a hydraulic system (Simrad). Now I have Jefa DD1, and can only say that this is an amazing system with the following advantages (on trimaran, doing up to 20kn): No swapy feeling when you drive by hand because you do not have to push around oil in the lines. Very energy efficient- even in touch weather. Smart handover mechanism so the switch from auto to manual is always convenient. Very compressed, so easy to fit into most boats.
Have only done some 10K miles, so cannot judge long term sturdiness, but the design seems to be cleverly thought out, No brushes and other elements that can wear out.
Jorgen
jbchrist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-01-2022, 09:09   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: New England. USA.
Boat: McCurdy & Rhodes Custom 46
Posts: 1,289
Re: Autopilot: linear drive vs wheel pilot?

Iíve been very happy with the robustness and serviceability of my hy-pro drive.
https://www.hypro.co.uk/products/hyd...eering-system/
Overkill for your boat but they do make smaller integrated units.
Iíve had great tech support via email from the factory and part have been available in the US for me as well as the UK where the unit was installed.
These will work with many manufacturers controllers.
dfelsent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
autopilot, linear drive, wheel

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: Autopilot Drive - Lecomble & Schmitt Linear 24V electric/hydraulic complete drive Capdave360 General Classifieds (no boats) 0 02-07-2021 10:40
To Linear or Not To Linear (Autopilot) SailAwy Marine Electronics 13 22-11-2019 17:07
Want To Buy: Raymarine ST4000 Tiller pilot linear drive yttrill Classifieds Archive 2 11-10-2014 21:36
Linear drive Auto pilot install, pictures/ideas needed! Iain Marine Electronics 3 13-05-2013 06:35
For Sale: Raymarine Auto pilot linear drive $500 JimJohnston Classifieds Archive 1 07-07-2012 14:37

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.