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Old 16-06-2024, 02:23   #1
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Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

I wonder how many yachtsmen use sextant navigation these days? Not many I guess. (But I've got a plastic one and I am dying to try it).

These days everyone is using satellite GPS however it has one huge drawback. What if an adversary destroys the system maybe by jamming the signal or "spoofing it" so that it positions you incorrectly?

It would be a big worry for navies and airlines so research has been taking place on "quantum navigation". If it become the way to navigate aircraft and ships around the world it will probably be just a matter of time before we do also?

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Old 16-06-2024, 03:05   #2
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

I use a sextant, and do some passages exclusively with it, but I'd hate to go to sea without a handheld GPS. It would be irresponsible for me not to have it, since it's available. But I do enjoy the challenge of not using it for as long as possible.
Did a short boat delivery yesterday, and found to my shock that there was no compass onboard. That was harder to deal with than the lack of GPS (which there also wasn't). Luckily we were just buoy-hoppping from headland to headland, but a sudden fog would have been a bummer.
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Old 16-06-2024, 03:48   #3
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
I use a sextant, and do some passages exclusively with it, but I'd hate to go to sea without a handheld GPS. It would be irresponsible for me not to have it, since it's available. But I do enjoy the challenge of not using it for as long as possible.
Did a short boat delivery yesterday, and found to my shock that there was no compass onboard. That was harder to deal with than the lack of GPS (which there also wasn't). Luckily we were just buoy-hoppping from headland to headland, but a sudden fog would have been a bummer.

I had a bit of fun at Lancelin where I lived on the beachfront and took some sextant sights

I have a hand bearing compass. It won't be of much use in a fog but are they of any use at all for navigation these days?
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Old 16-06-2024, 04:42   #4
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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I use a sextant, and do some passages exclusively with it, but I'd hate to go to sea without a handheld GPS. It would be irresponsible for me not to have it, since it's available. But I do enjoy the challenge of not using it for as long as possible.
Did a short boat delivery yesterday, and found to my shock that there was no compass onboard. That was harder to deal with than the lack of GPS (which there also wasn't). Luckily we were just buoy-hoppping from headland to headland, but a sudden fog would have been a bummer.
No compass….. crazy. Thank goodness we have our built in compass on our phones to save the day!

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Old 16-06-2024, 04:47   #5
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No compass….. crazy. Thank goodness we have our built in compass on our phones to save the day!

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We have.??
Which phone do you use.?
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Old 16-06-2024, 04:47   #6
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
I had a bit of fun at Lancelin where I lived on the beachfront and took some sextant sights

I have a hand bearing compass. It won't be of much use in a fog but are they of any use at all for navigation these days?
They are still the preferred way of determining whether a risk of collision exists.
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Old 16-06-2024, 05:10   #7
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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They are still the preferred way of determining whether a risk of collision exists.

Good thinking. Thanks!

As far as a binnacle compass is concerned I haven't got one as yet (I have been buying an EPIRB, VHF Radio, Flares etc)

The compass I have been looking at is a Plastimo Olympic 135 which at $531 is a lot of money. Are they really necessary these days or can I get by with something less expensive?

https://www.bluebottlemarine.com/pro...8&gad_source=1

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Old 16-06-2024, 05:10   #8
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

This is five years old I wonder what the status is today.
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Old 16-06-2024, 05:18   #9
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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This is five years old I wonder what the status is today.
"London Underground hosts tests for ‘quantum compass’ that could replace GPS” ~ by Robin McKie, Sat 15 Jun 2024
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ment-locations

Dr Joseph Cotter with his underground luggage, the UK's first commercial quantum accelerometer for navigation. [still, a little large, for most of our boats]

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Old 16-06-2024, 05:27   #10
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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"London Underground hosts tests for ‘quantum compass’ that could replace GPS” ~ by Robin McKie, Sat 15 Jun 2024

Thanks Gord.

That's the article(15 Jun 2024) that triggered my interest and the new thread.
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Old 16-06-2024, 05:45   #11
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

Steel boat, I have a compass, great coat hanger.

Phone compass? Almost as good.
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Old 16-06-2024, 06:26   #12
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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Dr Joseph Cotter with his underground luggage, the UK's first commercial quantum accelerometer for navigation. [still, a little large, for most of our boats]


We will all need bigger boats. Have you seen the new Chinese QNS watch (Quantum Navigation System) available on Temu $1
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Old 16-06-2024, 07:18   #13
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

People forget how limited sextants were. First it couldn’t be used n a cloudy day, 2nd you could only take one sight a day at noon, and third it was rarely more accurate than 20 miles. The sextant was a way to find land so you could follow the coast by compass and eye to your destination.

And the design of the GPS system makes it almost impossible to knock it out entirely. Each satellite is independent. It is possible to jam GPS in a small area for a brief time. But since the jamming signal is easy to locate, if done as an act of war something like an EA-18 Growler jet would quickly turn it into a crater.

And if you were unfortunate to find your plastic boat in the middle of a war zone you really don’t need navigation. Something with large guns will soon contact you and tell you where to go.
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Old 16-06-2024, 07:22   #14
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

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Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??
No.

Quote:
These days everyone is using satellite GPS however it has one huge drawback. What if an adversary destroys the system maybe by jamming the signal or "spoofing it" so that it positions you incorrectly?
If someone destroys the GPS network it is likely a pre-emptive attack as part of a nuclear exchange. Sailboat cruising is unlikely to be any major priority in the coming days.

Warships may use quantum navigation likely as a backup to GPS but GPS isn't going anywhere. Submarines would benefit the most from QN as they would have position precision similar to surface warships. Fun fact sea launch ballistic missiles use celestial navigation system to perform a mid course position lock for course adjustments as a backup in case GPS in unavailable.
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Old 16-06-2024, 08:31   #15
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Re: Are the days of satellite GPS navigation numbered??

With the star gazing apps now it seems like it wouldn't be a huge challenge to design a program that uses the phone's compass combined with the date and what its camera sees on a clear night (polaris, southern cross, etc.) to give a reasonably accurate position similar to a sextant.
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