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04-06-2020, 09:14
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Gulf Coast of FL
Boat: Pearson
Posts: 408
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I have used epoxy from raka inc., Raka, Inc. 772-489-4070, Epoxy-Fiberglass-Carbon-Kevlar 3490 oleander ave, ft pierce fl 34982. I have used their products for years building wood boats and repairing other boats. They are very reasonable, knowledgeable, helpful. They have different types of epoxies and different hardeners, fast to slow. best product and prices, fast delivery times.
__________________
Ken Z
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04-06-2020, 09:24
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: Herreshoff 28 modified ketch- wood
Posts: 379
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I will never West System again. Read Pardey’s Appendix section in his Hull Construction book. I hated the pumps. They lose their prime and drip. Lots of waste. One of the tins I had rusted through on the sidewall. More waste and mess. Lots of blushing failures and moisture failures. If I need a penetrating glue, I now use Smiths or if laminating wood glues-water based.
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04-06-2020, 10:38
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Boat: Watkins 27 - 27'
Posts: 922
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I've used Progressive Epoxy Polymers for years. Prices are good and Paul Oman's customer service is top notch. He will return call and emails if you have questions. The web-page is nothing short of bizarre, but once you wade through it there is tons of good information.
Marine Epoxy Links - Wooden fiberglass boat repair
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04-06-2020, 10:51
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Daytona Beach
Boat: Gulfstar, Hirsch, 45'
Posts: 224
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
two thumbs up in agreement. Just recently used West Systems and compared with others, well, its no comparison... for what I was doing, which was heavy structural repair.
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04-06-2020, 11:58
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 8,547
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I used a gallon of EAST epoxy with their basic hardener for some structural repairs and various sundry other things. I've also used WEST, and I'm currently using the house-brand epoxy of a local and well-regarded boat-building-supplies store. All results were good, and the only problems were user-caused.
As per a64 - you have to respect the amount of work and information that WEST has put out for the epoxy newbie. Their online and printed guides are helpful. Many other brands follow WEST's proportions so you can use WEST pumps with them...
So if you're new to epoxy and shopping retail, and you won't be using tons of it, WEST is a good choice - it's available just about anywhere, and they have tons of info and guidance available.
If you are going to use lots and are willing to invest some time to learn more about them, and consult with the makers, then you have more options.
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04-06-2020, 13:25
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North East USA
Boat: 1975 Tartan 41'
Posts: 1,044
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I have been using US composite 637 epoxy. It is good general purpose for under $100 for a gallon, which is like 40% less than west i believe.
Not all epoxies are equal. The US composite epoxy is not impervious to fuel, where I believe West is. When I built my diesel tank, I used 'Steel Epoxy' or something like that.... i don't like the 5:1 ratio with West. it is Hard to mix a 5:1 in small quantities compared to a 2:1 or 3:1. So you end up wasting a lot of 5:1 if you do a bunch of small jobs
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04-06-2020, 15:08
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NSW Australia
Boat: SS34
Posts: 205
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zstine
I have been using US composite 637 epoxy. It is good general purpose for under $100 for a gallon, which is like 40% less than west i believe.
Not all epoxies are equal. The US composite epoxy is not impervious to fuel, where I believe West is. When I built my diesel tank, I used 'Steel Epoxy' or something like that.... i don't like the 5:1 ratio with West. it is Hard to mix a 5:1 in small quantities compared to a 2:1 or 3:1. So you end up wasting a lot of 5:1 if you do a bunch of small jobs
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Buy yourself a jewelers digital scale for mixing small amounts like half a teaspoon etc.
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04-06-2020, 15:41
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Easton, MD
Boat: 15' Catboat, Bristol 35.5
Posts: 3,510
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I think they are all equivalent. It is best to pick one and stick with it. They have slightly different working characteristics that take experience to get used to. No need for more than one learning curve.
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04-06-2020, 15:42
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lake Ont
Posts: 8,547
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramona
Buy yourself a jewelers digital scale for mixing small amounts like half a teaspoon etc.
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One thing I like about the house-brand epoxy I'm currently using is that it's a 2:1 by volume ratio, which is easy. For tiny amounts, I have the usual hardware-store 5-min epoxy, and some slower pigmented stuff in tubes.
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04-06-2020, 15:46
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Easton, MD
Boat: 15' Catboat, Bristol 35.5
Posts: 3,510
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramona
Buy yourself a jewelers digital scale for mixing small amounts like half a teaspoon etc.
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I use System Three just for that reason. They give volumetric and mass mixing ratios that others don't. That allows for accurate small batches. I have a gram scale and the ratio is 100:44 resin:hardener. So I can mix 25g resin to 11g hardener very accurately.
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04-06-2020, 15:49
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,864
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
Disposable syringes and paper medicine cups with graduated volume markings are excellent for mixing small batches. Personally, I prefer 2:1 ratios when field repair is a consideration. West is like Apple. A component of the price is for the name and tech support.
Personally, West is my least preferred epoxy. Its expensive, it's very sensitive to ambient temperatures in regards to "kicking" and it gets amine blushing. It also has low comparitive viscosity compared to others and whilst this may have certain advantages, these don't extend to overhead work!
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04-06-2020, 16:03
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#28
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always in motion is the future
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: in paradise
Boat: Sundeer 64
Posts: 18,856
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
I do not agree with the sentiment that it’s all the same, I notice big differences.
The reason to use 5:1 ratio (amine blush) epoxy is that it is stronger. The reason to use 2:1 ratio (less amine blush) epoxy is that it is easier to get the ratio right. This is a non-issue for pro’s and precise amateurs so just select the resin that best suits the project.
I like West System and MAS epoxy for anything but have started using TotalBoat as well. TotalBoat comes in plastic containers which is better than the tins from West. Totalboat has 5:1 as well as 2:1 epoxies. I also use their penetrating epoxy and am impressed by it. It does have amine blush but after a wash and sand I could get a perfect coat of Epifanes varnish on which seemed to cure faster than normal
Price is all about the same. If you buy the cheaper epoxies, you give up strength. I used some no-name and the bond between pieces of plywood was weaker than the plywood.
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04-06-2020, 16:13
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramona
Buy yourself a jewelers digital scale for mixing small amounts like half a teaspoon etc.
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Scales don't work on boats. Even small movements cause massive changes in the weighed figure making it impossible to be precise enough for small amounts . Most people are probably only using small amounts unless they undertaking a big repair or construction, in case they will probably be on land.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet
Disposable syringes and paper medicine cups with graduated volume markings are excellent for mixing small batches. Personally, I prefer 2:1 ratios when field repair is a consideration. West is like Apple. A component of the price is for the name and tech support.
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But mixing is normally by weight. Very few epoxies and 2 part paints that I've seen list the both weight and volume mixing instructions.
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04-06-2020, 16:21
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,742
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Re: Are more expensive epoxies better?
For very small quantities of 2:1 I use a couple 5 ml syringes and measure by volume.
For anything else I use scales and measure by weight which is usually not
quite 2:1, the manufacturer will say if it is 100 parts resin to 43-45 parts hardener. The smallest I would do that way is 10g resin and 4.3 g hardener.
The warning here is do not mix up weight and volume units and do not try to mix a 700g batch on a 500g scale!
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Big dreams, small boats...
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