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Old 12-02-2024, 02:34   #1
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Are gas stoves worthwhile?

I've just done a forum search on "LPG gas stoves" and got some crazy links one being "keel cooling". (However in the US you may call them "propane stoves"?)

Now I have a quote to plumb the gas up from the gas bottle stern locker to the two burner stove - a distance of about 15ft. The quote $A2900.00

Is there an acceptable alternative to LPG gas such as kerosene (I think in the US it is called paraffin?)

(I wonder what they will charge to check and certify the 240V electrical system?)
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Old 12-02-2024, 02:39   #2
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Coopec 43 its fairly common to get the correct gas pipe (here in Queensland it is copper with a light brown plastic cover) from the plumber then run the line yourself. The plumber then just has to connect both ends and install a cut of valve. It can be a PIA install a gas line and some plumbers work I have seen I would rather do it myself anyway.
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Old 12-02-2024, 03:32   #3
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

I have had 3 boats with kero stoves, I love them. Most people hate them. I'd imagine that sourcing a kero stove even second hand would be extremely difficult. I found a used one at Yacht Grot in Freo about 20 years ago and it was rare back then.

A diesel stove is a viable alternative. https://www.dieselheat.com.au/diesel...ves-and-ovens/
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Old 12-02-2024, 04:18   #4
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Coopec 43 its fairly common to get the correct gas pipe (here in Queensland it is copper with a light brown plastic cover) from the plumber then run the line yourself. The plumber then just has to connect both ends and install a cut of valve. It can be a PIA install a gas line and some plumbers work I have seen I would rather do it myself anyway.
Cheers
Thank you for your help.

I just did a half page reply to your post but the Cruising Forum crashed and I lost the lot. (Sophisticated site isn't it?)

If it took the installer all day to carry out the job that would only amount to 8 hours X $150/hr = $1200. The most expensive DVK Monitor is $650. TOTAL $1850. How does he account for the other $1050? ($2900-$1850= $1050) (There maybe a logical explanation?)
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Old 12-02-2024, 04:39   #5
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Your choices are like this:

1) Permanently installed LPG/propane/butane (nomenclature along with exact chemical nature of the product used varies regionally). This has been the standard configuration for cruising sailboats for many years, and works well.

2) Electric. Always usable when there's mains power at the dock, the availability of lithium battery systems have made this feasible under way and at anchor. Widely used by power boats and by dock queens. Cost and complexity of the supporting electrical components needed while under way/at anchor have limited the number of installations.

3) Alcohol, using Origo stoves or similar. Popular on smaller vessels and a few larger ones in the 1990s through about 2020 when Origo discontinued the stoves. These never worked especially well but for a while were the best low cost, simple alternative to propane (LPG). Not quite enough heat, fuel availability a problem.

4) Diesel stoves from Wallas and similar. Expensive, complex, and cannot be installed on gimbals.


5) Various obsolete, obsolescent, and portable alternatives.


On point 5 probably the most common solution is the butane box stoves first popularized in Korea that take a canister the size and shape of a hair spray can. Like other portable and camping stoves, not considered safe for marine use, but some people do anyway. Surveyors and insurance consider them disqualifying. Nonetheless seen on smaller, older vessels with some regularity.
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Old 12-02-2024, 04:40   #6
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

it's more than just running a gas line. you need a regulator and solenoid .. along with controller and propane alarm sensor. no big deal but takes time and thought to get it right. but yes it is worthwhile to me.
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Old 12-02-2024, 04:40   #7
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Coopec 43, who knows maybe he puts on a bit of marine tax. Or he has really high insurance costs, I know my marine surveyor's insurance is fairly expensive and with so few surveyors there is really no competition to lower the insurance cost. Also, your gas fitter will be licenced and provides a certificate so maybe there is some cost there as well?
Our 6-foot run cost $500-$600 six years ago. That was with me installing the pipe. That didn't include the gas fitter supplying a gas detector. He basically came down to the yacht fitted a regulator, swaged the pipe ends, installed a cut of valve and flexible hose for the stove end. I got it cheap because he was already there fitting another gas stove in our marina.
Consider it an investment for when you come to sell your Roberts. It is much easier to sell a yacht with a legal gas system rather than having to remove it all and sell the yacht without a cooking system. Surprisingly this happens a lot on older boats that have old stoves with no flame failure devices and old gas fittings.

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Old 12-02-2024, 04:47   #8
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
I have had 3 boats with kero stoves, I love them. Most people hate them. I'd imagine that sourcing a kero stove even second hand would be extremely difficult. I found a used one at Yacht Grot in Freo about 20 years ago and it was rare back then.

A diesel stove is a viable alternative. https://www.dieselheat.com.au/diesel...ves-and-ovens/

Thanks Wotname.

I plan to sell Helen so I am quite concerned about the money I am spending on her. I have just called for quotes for Sail bags/Lazy Jacks and I am starting to hyperventilate about the likely cost. Will I ever get my money back?

But then I have my moments. I was walking back along the pen jetty when I passed a guy on a beautiful Bavaria Yacht. We got talking and then after a few minutes he said "You are the owner of the yacht that was on the "hard" at Hillarys Marinaa a few months ago aren't you? I think her name is Helen isn't it? She is beautiful!" I was stunned!

What is Helen worth?. The sail maker said "A yacht fitted out like this would be worth $300K". I immediately dismissed that as fanciful. I've decided to tidy her up and get the yacht broker in to give me an idea of what she is worth. If it is not a good price I'll sell her "as is". But if it is a good price I'll install the gas and 240V power and Boom Bags/Lazy Jack.

I'll be on deck tomorrow in 41C heat giving her some touching up.
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Old 12-02-2024, 05:10   #9
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Coopec 43, who knows maybe he puts on a bit of marine tax. Or he has really high insurance costs, I know my marine surveyor's insurance is fairly expensive and with so few surveyors there is really no competition to lower the insurance cost. Also, your gas fitter will be licenced and provides a certificate so maybe there is some cost there as well?
Our 6-foot run cost $500-$600 six years ago. That was with me installing the pipe. That didn't include the gas fitter supplying a gas detector. He basically came down to the yacht fitted a regulator, swaged the pipe ends, installed a cut of valve and flexible hose for the stove end. I got it cheap because he was already there fitting another gas stove in our marina.
Consider it an investment for when you come to sell your Roberts. It is much easier to sell a yacht with a legal gas system rather than having to remove it all and sell the yacht without a cooking system. Surprisingly this happens a lot on older boats that have old stoves with no flame failure devices and old gas fittings.

Cheers
Thank you! Good points.
I forgot about the gas fitter's insurance (They want an arm and a leg)

If I want to use a Dept of Transport pen

"The owner of a vessel using a DoT facility needs to provide proof of compliance with electrical and gas requirements before pen or mooring licences are renewed or issued. Proof of appropriate Public liability third party insurance is also required at this time and this booklet explains what you need to do to comply with these requirements"
https://www.transport.wa.gov.au/medi...sInsurance.pdf
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Old 12-02-2024, 06:14   #10
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

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it's more than just running a gas line. you need a regulator and solenoid .. along with controller and propane alarm sensor. no big deal but takes time and thought to get it right. but yes it is worthwhile to me.

"takes time and thought to get it right"

It's not a job a certified tradesman can be blase about is it? I'm sure there'd be a lot of checking and re-checking.
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Old 12-02-2024, 15:02   #11
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

I had an Origo non pressurized alcohol stove for many years. It works kind of like a sterno or fondue cooker if you are familiar with those terms.


Not until reading this thread did I learn they were no longer in production, which is a shame. If you can wait a while for boiling water and you don't need an oven they work just fine, at least for weekend/vacation use. If I recall you can use kerosene or something similar for fuel (don't quote me!). Maybe look for a used one?


I also used a portable butane stove way back in the dark ages. Store the fuel above decks where it can't get below. Worked for me on a small boat with minimal needs.


If you are going to be spending substantial time aboard I don't think either of these alternatives will satisfy. It's propane or enough battery/solar/generator capacity to go all electric.
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Old 12-02-2024, 15:09   #12
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

I would skip kerosene cookers. They are notoriously fiddly to use, but for me the bottom line is the fumes permeate any food cooked in the oven. We had some friends who lived aboard for many decades. They were experts at cooking on their kerosene stove, and would produce beautiful muffins and bread all the time that was almost inedible due to the fumes from the kerosene. Plus, I can tell the moment I go below that you have a kerosene cooker. The odor permeates the whole boat and your clothes. We have used propane exclusively and I don't plan on changing. Cheap, available everywhere, cooks great, and doesn't require gobs of power and special pots and pans. My philosophy on electricity is to minimize how much I use, thereby minimizing how much I have to produce, the systems needed to control all that, and the headaches of maintaining it all. Plus, I can still make hot coffee when the power is out...
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Old 12-02-2024, 15:15   #13
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

The price you were quoted to run propane to your stove is ridiculous. I recently revamped the propane system on my 1979 cutter. New fiberglass bottle, new regulator, new valves, and a new 25 foot line chafe protected through every opening and bulkhead. it is not difficult with common sense and a careful eye toward safety. However, if you are selling your boat, why bother to go through all that hassle. The new owner may want to go with lithium, iron phosphate, batteries, and an induction system. I would sell it as is, cheers
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Old 12-02-2024, 15:16   #14
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
"takes time and thought to get it right"

It's not a job a certified tradesman can be blase about is it? I'm sure there'd be a lot of checking and re-checking.
This is more UK canal boat focused I think but might be some useful or interesting stuff in here if you look around. ISTR they did a PDF which was quite comprehensive -

https://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/req...oats-with-gas/
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Old 12-02-2024, 15:59   #15
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Re: Are gas stoves worthwhile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by coopec43 View Post
..... The quote $A2900.00
.......
There is another reason why the quote could be very high - the gas fitter does not want to do the job (too much other work / too hard / just not interested etc) and quotes high to discourage you to pick him. They figure if you accept, they will get a premium for not wishing to do the work. It happens!
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