Anybody know ‘Basic’ thru hull?

[Rocinante33]

Hi All

This boat is new to me. (Beneteau 381 year 2001) I had it surveyed on the Great Lakes last summer and moved it into the Atlantic in the fall.

I went to fiddle with the main engine cooling intake through hull and it broke off in my hand. Obviously not good. I managed to drive in a plug and then remove it. Took some nerve, but I pulled the plug for a few very long seconds and put a new Groco on without pulling the boat out. I wouldn’t like to do that again.

It was crusted with white salt and a pinkish residue. I can break it up with my fingers. Tortilla chip comes to mind. Obviously, it never should have been there. I think that some Home Depot type stopcock was used sometime in the past. The actual though hull as well as the elbows were apparently bronze and have the familiar green patina.

That got me looking hard at the other through hulls. There are four.

The galley drain (photo enclosed) has a combination of white salty compound and when I scratch away at it, green patina underneath. No obviously pinky stuff.

The head through hulls look better (second photo) but they too have a mix of white stuff the consistency of scouring powder and green patina.

The brand name is clearly emblazoned “BASIC”. I have poked around on the ‘net and I can’t find any reference to the company to determine whether they are marine standard. It is stamped 1 1/4. PN25 but I don’t know what that means either.

Obviously the safe thing to do is pull the boat and replace it all, but I’m wondering if that’s just a panic reaction. (Having a through hull break up in your hand does tend to provoke that feeling of panic….). I’m also a long way from my preferred DIY spot.

Two questions.

Does anybody know the Basic brand?

Is the white powdery residue anything to worry about? It is very dry, and doesn’t seem like salt. My first thought was it is corrosion but that’s not obvious when I scratch away at it.

Anything obvious I’m missing?


Thanks in advance!

[Statistical]

PN25 is a working pressure indicator (25 bar). Stamping that on a marine valve would be unusual so I would presume these are not intended for marine use.

It is possible they are some mild form of stainless steel so have held up better than a brass valve would despite not being marine seacocks. In the second photo the "white stuff" is heaviest right at the junction of the valve to the pipe so it is very likely galvanic corrosion due to dissimilar metals. You got two different metals immersed in an electrolyte (sea water). That is a battery.

Despite probably being wrong they don't look in terrible shape so while you should probably replace them I don't think it needs an emergency haulout. Be extra careful when opening and closing them and have a mallet and spare bungs stored near them.

You used the word thru hull in your post but it was all about seacocks (valves). The thruhulls themselves might be fine but you should inspect them too when you do a haulout. You may want to replace them too when you replace the seacocks (valves).

[Calif.Ted]

A friend recently sold her 2006 423 and the buyers surveyor was adamant that there was something wrong with ALL Beneteau thru hulls. Big safety issue, boat can't move an inch without complete expensive replacement. After being given a discount for repairs buyers promptly took boat to their home 60 miles away via Pacific Ocean. Turns out there is controversy regarding seacocks on the french boats. I'm still unsure if there is a problem or it's exact nature. Practical sailor had some info.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...-seacock-query

[Bowdrie]

That white corrugated hose that's fitted with a "cuff" in the first pic is a very unsafe situation.

[CarlF]

Unbelievably, the EU allows DZR (dezincifistation resistant) brass in thru hulls and sea cocks of European built boats that can corrode away in as little as 5 years. Marine bronze seacocks like those from Groco as found in most US built boats will last many decades.

It's a safe bet the picture is DZR. I'd replace it.

All of my seacocks are Forespar Series 93 (also called OEM) Marlon plastic and have been for 15 years. They look and operate as new. Not stiff at all. I "excercise" them every six months by opening and closing them a few times but have never done any other maintenence. These pass ABYC tests and never have corrosion problems. Note that Forespar makes a lower quality seacock that swells and the handle breaks. Only buy the Series 93 ones.

https://defender.com/en_us/forespar-...room-thru-hull

[CarlF]

Unbelievably, the EU allows DZR (dezincifistation resistant) brass in thru hulls and sea cocks that can corrode away in as little as 5 years. Marine bronze seacocks like those from Groco as found in most US built boats will last many decades.

It's a safe bet the picture is DZR or even a lower grade brass. I'd replace it.

All of my seacocks are Forespar Series 93 (also called OEM) Marlon plastic and have been for 15 years. These pass ABYC tests and never have corrosion problems. Note that Forespar makes a lower quality seacock that swells and the handle breaks. Only buy the Series 93 ones.

https://defender.com/en_us/forespar-...room-thru-hull

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Calif.Ted

A friend recently sold her 2006 423 and the buyers surveyor was adamant that there was something wrong with ALL Beneteau thru hulls. Big safety issue, boat can't move an inch without complete expensive replacement. After being given a discount for repairs buyers promptly took boat to their home 60 miles away via Pacific Ocean. Turns out there is controversy regarding seacocks on the french boats. I'm still unsure if there is a problem or it's exact nature. Practical sailor had some info.
https://www.practical-sailor.com/boa...-seacock-query

It is still a problem even on boats of any pricepoint. Europeans for whatever reason think brass is acceptable below waterline.

Beneteau isn't lying in that the CE does allow brass below the waterline but that is just passing the buck. The CE doesn't prohibit bronze or high strength composite materials either. They could easily use those safer material and be CE compliant. It would just increase the cost of building the boat by a few hundred dollars.

To me it the place to save a buck isn't holes cut into the boat that could allow uncontrolled flooding of the boat. Just think tough by using brass they can offer a new fully loaded Oceanis 51.1 for $906,000 instead of $907,000. Think of all the savings. When it sinks at the dock in 10 years it will be someone else's problem.

[Bill Seal]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

That white corrugated hose that's fitted with a "cuff" in the first pic is a very unsafe situation.

Who the hell puts swimming pool vacuum hose on a boat?
That stuff even breaks if you pull it too hard.

[NorthCoastJoe]

I would have to ask ...Who did the survey ?

Every boat I have owned I replace anything that can allow water to enter the boat from below the waterline. I sleep better knowing that everything is new and high quality.

[Shanachie]

Groco's through hulls and fittings use 83600 bronze and 84400 bronze.


Look it up and you will discover that they actually are red brass, which has copper mixed with zinc. They are called bronze for marketing purposes. Real bronze has about 12 percent tin as an alloy.



That's not to say Groco makes bad parts. In my experience, they're very good. They know what they're doing and use a proper brass alloy that lasts a really long time in seawater.


The truth is that there are companies that use really good and safe brass alloys for their parts, and there are companies that use cheap, crappy alloys that put you and your boat at risk.


Some, but apparently not many, companies use real bronze.



No, I don't know how to tell the difference, except to avoid no-name parts and buy from reputable dealers so you don't get stuck with a counterfeit part.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Who the hell puts swimming pool vacuum hose on a boat?
That stuff even breaks if you pull it too hard.

Clips on the sink hose aren't great either, or who put the sink outlet next to the heads inlet

I think a previous owner has been in there and changed those seacocks. They may not even be DZR, but ordinary plumbing valves.

This isn't going to be cheap but pull the boat and replace the lot. Bronze would be good or TruDesign. We have gone for bronze in the engine room, but slowly replacing the rest with TruDesign. They had a factory fire a couple of years ago in NZ and that caused supply problems, but availability is now returned to normal levels.

Just watch US valves are often tapered threads, whilst European through hulls normally parallel threads.

Pete

[more]

Originally Posted by Statistical

Just think tough by using brass they can offer a new fully loaded Oceanis 51.1 for $906,000 instead of $907,000. Think of all the savings. When it sinks at the dock in 10 years it will be someone else's problem.

first this is owner mistake, EU seacok agriculture brass valve is good in saltwater 10 years,but lawmaker say change after 5 year by maintance and documentation of yacht. if this hapen under sailing this is captain mistake becouse dont check boat prior sailing,maintance log.

underwater for now is best trudesign seacok and valve

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

Groco's through hulls and fittings use 83600 bronze and 84400 bronze.
Look it up and you will discover that they actually are red brass, which has copper mixed with zinc. They are called bronze for marketing purposes. Real bronze has about 12 percent tin as an alloy.

Not quite, it's not that easy.
The terms "Red Brass" or "Yellow Brass" are often used, but both terms cover a huge assortment of alloys with a large range of overlap.
Red brass is higher copper content, yellow brass lower copper content.
The Groco C83600 is 85-5-5-5, and well suited for saltwater usage.
85% Copper, 5% Tin, 5% Lead, 5% Zinc, it's an alloy that's well respected for quality parts used in saltwater.
The Zinc content of the Groco part is quite low, your common "brass garden hose valve" may be as high as 35% Zinc, totally unsuited for salt water.
The C84400 has a bit less Copper, a bit more Zinc, but adds a little Nickle, also a higher Lead content to aid in machinability.
No one doubts that Silicon Bronze is a "real" Bronze, and yet it has no Tin in it.

[Bent Bugle]

I'd replace that white hose, looks like dishwasher or washing machine outlet line, it'll develop splits in it, the white stuff is a reaction between the two dissimilar metals, as stated above.

[NYSail]

Those are original beneteau seacocks. US built boats also used them. They are not quality parts. Since, beneteau is using all groco. On my 2005 423 I have been replacing a couple every year…… skin fittings and all. All of the fitting I have removed so far have been in good condition, however I will keep going till all are replaced with groco bronze. Also I am adding proper sea cock /valves rather than just the ball valve.

Good lock
Greg