Adding TBT to bottom paint

[KJB]

For all the extreme environmentalists (and there seem to be many) and population conspiracy theorists...

Relax.

I believe in doing what we can to sustainably and responsibly use our resources to help keep our evironment(s) clean. However, to many, environmental concerns (environmentalism) is a religion no less intolerant of naysayers or "evildoers" than middle ages catholicism or modern-day islamic extremists.

I know, using the same tactics as their aforementioned counterparts, that I may be ridiculed and maybe even called names. So be it. After reading a majority of this thread, I needed to say this...for myself if for no one else.

The movement is full of hypocrites from the hollywood elite flying on their private jets, to politicians and corporations who make huge profits employing the methodology of "scaring everyone to death" and so many others.

It is as much a feel-good movement as it is anything else.
It is as much a massive profit maker as it is anything else.
It is as much about politics as it is anything else.
it is as much about social engineering and population control as it is anything else.

Personally, I get tired of do-gooders always trying to tell everyone else what they think you should do. After saying that, the OP of course asked.

Again, I believe in sustainability and responsibility. There is so much more to write, but what would be the point? Just like with most other things, the side you are on is going to be the side you stay on.

Take care.

And FWIW, if you want to put tin in your bottom paint, just do it. But I wouldn't go around telling people about it. You also may want to avoid certain ports. If you are OK with that, so be it.





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[Montanan]

Originally Posted by chrisr

not read the full thread here, however couple of years ago i mixed 10% super high strength round up, with altex # 5

worked an absolute treat. first effective anti-foul i've seen since tbt was phased out

not had the opportunity to do it again, but definitely would

(was originally given the tip by some guys in coffs hrb...they said you could tell who was using it 'cause not only was there no growth on their boat, but also no growth on the marina pen around them...)

cheers,

Altex #5 has as one of its primary solvent ingredients, 10 to 20% xylene; Round Up is a solution of water and a glyphosate salt.

Xylene is not soluble in water and will float on top of denser water if combined.

It is likely that your mixture of Round Up and water would have separated in the bucket. Although I haven't tried blending the two ingredients to see how quickly they would separate.

Glyphosate salts are readily dissolvable in water, hence it would likely make for a very poor ablative anti-fouling as the glyphosate would tend to rapidly dissolve when the boat hull made contact with the water and thus a very short duration of herbicidal effectiveness.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by SVI

Start to eat then

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/s.../27observ.html

Here's a quote from your article:

"Dr. Neckers said polymerizable herbicides like this might be made into antifouling paint for boats, to keep algae from growing."

This is not scientific evidence of anything. The man said herbicides like Roundup "might" work in anti fouling paint. He didn't study it, he didn't write a paper on it, he didn't do anything except offer an opinion.

You aren't very good at this, are you?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

No just because there isn't a paper isn't proof roundup doesn't work if mixed with bottom paint. All it proves is there is no paper study of it.

FFS, this has been an urban myth for years. This whole thread is why people eat bear gall bladders and shark fin. They have some anecdotal, coincidental evidence that it works and there's nothing that's going to convince them otherwise.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by gamayun

FFS, this has been an urban myth for years. This whole thread is why people eat bear gall bladders and shark fin. They have some anecdotal, coincidental evidence that it works and there's nothing that's going to convince them otherwise.

i normally don't bother with debating stuff like this (gave up trying to educate people years ago), however i made the original comment so feel obliged to.

you can dismiss this if you like...but i know i did it, and i saw the evidence on my own boat with my own eyes that it worked.

have you tried it and can say that it did not work ?

if not, then what are you relying on ? hearsay ?

but what others choose to believe really doesn't matter to me. more important things in life...

cheers,

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Here's a quote from your article:

"Dr. Neckers said polymerizable herbicides like this might be made into antifouling paint for boats, to keep algae from growing."

This is not scientific evidence of anything. The man said herbicides like Roundup "might" work in anti fouling paint. He didn't study it, he didn't write a paper on it, he didn't do anything except offer an opinion.

You aren't very good at this, are you?

Fstbttms, will you please stop feeding the troll, with a bit of luck it will go away.

[fivecapes]

This discussion kinda reminds me of the blind men and the elephant.

[SVI]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Here's a quote from your article:

"Dr. Neckers said polymerizable herbicides like this might be made into antifouling paint for boats, to keep algae from growing."

"Once they had a successful polymer, the researchers tested it and determined that the glyphosate portion of it still worked as an herbicide. Their work is described in the journal Biomacromolecules."

Ok, you can eat smth else. Just don't preach me Koran like your friend

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by SVI

"Once they had a successful polymer, the researchers tested it and determined that the glyphosate portion of it still worked as an herbicide. Their work is described in the journal Biomacromolecules."

What does this have to do with Roundup working as an anti fouling paint ingredient?

Jeezus- it's like talking to a rock.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by fivecapes

This discussion kinda reminds me of the blind men and the elephant.

... which reaches its most vigorous level of expression in anchoring threads.


Personally, I have a problem with threads that openly advocate practices which are illegal. Discussing the failings of the law is fine, but intentionally breaking the law is immature. There are many laws I don't care for, but I comply with them because that is citizenship. Civil disobedience constitutes a separate, tricky case, but this is not that.

[Montanan]

FYI: Glyphosate Fact Sheet from the Department of Natural Resources - State of Wisconsin.

https://dnr.wi.gov/lakes/plants/fact...eFactsheet.pdf

"Formulations

Glyphosate is a commonly used herbicide
that is used in both aquatic and terrestrial sites.
The use of glyphosate-based herbicides that are
not approved for aquatic use is very unsafe and
is a violation of federal and state pesticide laws.
Different formulations of glyphosate are
available, including isopropylamine salt of
glyphosate (Rodeo®, Shore-Klear®
, Aquapro®) and potassium glyphosate (Refuge®).

Aquatic Use and Considerations

Glyphosate is a systemic herbicide that
moves throughout the plant tissue and works by
inhibiting an important enzyme needed for
multiple plant processes, including growth.

Glyphosate is effective only on plants that
grow above the water. It will not be effective on
plants that are submerged or have most of their
foliage under water, nor will it control regrowth
from seed."


Herbicide Degradation, Persistence
and Trace Contaminants

In water, the concentration of glyphosate is
reduced through dispersal by water movement,
binding to the sediments, and break-down by
microorganisms. Glyphosate’s half-life (the time
it takes for half of the active ingredient to
degrade) is between 3 days and 19 weeks
depending on water conditions. Glyphosate
disperses rapidly in water so dilution occurs
quickly, thus moving water will decrease
concentration, but not half-life. The primary
breakdown product of glyphosate is
aminomethylphosphonic acid (AMPA), which is
also degraded by microbes in water and soil.
According to the EPA, available data do not
suggest that this compound poses any hazard
distinct from its parent compound, glyphosate.

[fstbttms]

Bingo Well done.

[Montanan]

http://https://www.invasive.org/gist...Glyphosate.pdf

"The half-life of glyphosate ranges from several weeks to years, but averages two months. In water, glyphosate is rapidly dissipated through adsorption to
suspended and bottom sediments, and has a half-life of 12
days to ten weeks"

http://https://www3.epa.gov/pesticid...3-20090617.pdf

Reference page 92: United States Environmental Protection Agency - Monsanto's RoundUp Update of Master Label data.


8.1 Aquatic Sites
This product may be applied to emerged weeds in all bodies of fresh and brackish water which may be
flowing, nonflowing or transient. This includes lakes, rivers, streams, ponds, estuaries, rice levees, seeps,
irrigation and drainage ditches, canals, reservoirs, wastewater treatment facilities, wildlife habitat
restoration and management areas.
This product may also be use to control weeds, woody brush and trees in other terrestrial non-crop sites
or in aquatic sites associated with these areas. These use areas include airports, apartment complexes,
commercial sites, ditch banks, dry ditches, dry canals, tence rows, forestry sites, golf courses, habitat
restoration and management areas, industrial sites, lumber yards, manufacturing sites, municipal sites,
natural areas, office complexes, public areas, parks, parking areas, petroleum tank farms and pumping
installations, railroads, recreational areas, residential areas, roadsides, schools, storage areas,
substations, utility rights-ot-way, utility sites, warehouse areas, and wildlife management areas.
This product may also be used in non-food crop sites such as Christmas tree farms, plant and ornamental
nurseries, pastures and rangelands and sold or turf seed farms.
If aquatic sites are present in the non-crop area and are part of the intended treatment, read and observe
the following directions:
This product does not control plants which are completely submerged or have a majority of their
foliage under water.
Th.ere is no restriction on the use of treated water for irrigation, recreation or domestic purposes.
Consult your local state fish and game agency and water control authorities before applying this product
to public water. Permits may be required to treat such water.
NOTE: Do not apply this product directly to water within 0.5 mile up-stream of an active potable water
intake in flowing water (i.e., river, stream, etc.) or within 0.5 mile of an active potable water intake in a
standing body of water such as lake, pond or reservoir. To make aquatic applications around and within 0.5
mile of active potable water intakes, the water intake must be turned off for a minimum period of 48 hours
after the application. The water intake may be turned on prior to 48 hours if the glyphosate level in the
intake water is below 0.7 parts per million as determined by laboratory analysis. These aquatic applications
may be made ONLY in those cases where there are alternative water sources or holding ponds which would
permit the turning off of an active potable water intake for a minimum period of 48 hours after the
applications. This restriction does NOT apply to intermittent inadvertent overspray of water in terrestrial use
sites.
For treatments after drawdown of water or in dry ditches, allow 7 or more days after treatment before
reintroduction of water to achieve maximum weed control. Apply this product within 1 day after drawdown
to ensure applic(ition to actively growing weeds.

[SVI]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

What does this have to do with Roundup working as an anti fouling paint ingredient?

Jeezus- it's like talking to a rock.

Try to look up Roundup main ingredient? Or you think Roundup is in the Mendeleev table?
I doubt you know who Mendeleev was

[mickt243]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

What does this have to do with Roundup working as an anti fouling paint ingredient?

Jeezus- it's like talking to a rock.

No mate....


A rock wouldn't argue or claim to be better than others based on religious nonsense.