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Old 14-02-2020, 14:58   #91
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
The stuff works because the new formulation keeps the toxin in the paint. When we leave the anchorage our TBT goes with us. If it didn’t stay in the paint, it wouldn’t work.
I didn't think that the tBt supporters in this thread could be any less well-informed than SVI, but here you are, proving me wrong.
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Old 14-02-2020, 14:58   #92
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

I guess you Aussies don't have the ambulance-chasers we have. Currently the airwaves here are full of offers to represent cancer victims who were exposed to RoundUp. It's actually pretty nasty (and hence effective) stuff, and there is a movement building to ban it. I recommend you swim around your boat on a daily basis...

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Old 14-02-2020, 15:00   #93
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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not read the full thread here, however couple of years ago i mixed 10% super high strength round up, with altex # 5

worked an absolute treat.
As much a wive's tale as adding pepper to anti fouling paint.
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Old 14-02-2020, 15:55   #94
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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Wrong shot - I am Muslim
As-Salaam-Alaikum.

In Arabic the word for earthling is Khalifa (خلِيفةً) pronounced kha-leaf-ah. This is a word with multiple meanings like deputy, guardian, ‘friend of Earth’ and viceroy, although it all boils down to Stewardship. Human beings are the most intelligent beings on earth so it makes sense that we have the responsibility to care for our planet.

As to the relevancy of various Scripture.

Allah said:

قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ

Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes of Israel and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims in submission to Him.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:136

Therefore, we find many verses of the Bible are in complete agreement with the message of Islam.

"Allah created the earth and all that is in it, including animals and its resources – it is people's heritage."
Qur'an, 6:165; 2:256-7


The Muslim declaration at Assisi in 1986 states that:

Allah created plants and animals and gave them the ability to reproduce before He made humans. Human beings must respect their role in creation and the rights of other creatures.

Islam, the word, means both peace and submission. It is only when humans submit to the will of Allah that they find peace within themselves and with the rest of creation.

Human beings are free, but this freedom includes recognising and accepting what Allah has given, including the gift of creation.

Human beings can only achieve the unity with creation that reflects the oneness of Allah when they work in harmony with nature, not against the natural order.
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Old 14-02-2020, 16:18   #95
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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I guess you Aussies don't have the ambulance-chasers we have. Currently the airwaves here are full of offers to represent cancer victims who were exposed to RoundUp. It's actually pretty nasty (and hence effective) stuff, and there is a movement building to ban it. I recommend you swim around your boat on a daily basis...
Greg
I don't think Roundup is 100% safe, but I do think it's very safe, and also the safest herbicide there is.

The likely result of the current wave of hysteria about Roundup is that more dangerous herbicides (ie, any of the others) will be used instead.
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Old 14-02-2020, 21:53   #96
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

It’s not unheard for TBT to be added to antifouling here in Malaysia. There is a chemical company in Penang that sells it by the litre. The chances of getting busted here are about nil BUT if you enter Australia at Darwin you may be dried out for a bio inspection of the hull and if they decide to sample your bottom paint and detect TBT you will be up for an uncomfortable time with EPA that could cost as much as the value of the recently purchased boat that you didn’t even know had illegal antifouling additives.
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Old 15-02-2020, 00:46   #97
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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He has a point though, it’s sort of like finding out your neighbor is spraying DDT for mosquitos.
DDT is still in use in many parts of the world believe it or not.
I agree with the logic but I would rather have my neighbour spray DDT for mosquitoes than any TBT compound anywhere near me. DDT is an insecticide and is remarkably non-toxic to humans compared to most of the compounds that replaced it, and is very effective as an insecticide when used properly. The most significant negative characteristic of DDT is its persistence in soil (persistence on the wall of a house where malaria, yellow fever, dengue Japanese encephalitis, etc) are vectored by mosquitoes is a GOOD thing. It is inexpensive, effective and has low mammalian toxicity. The BAD outcomes of DDT persistence include negative impact on calcium deposition in the eggs of birds. Birds are generally good things (when they aren't coating our boats with unwanted materials) so it was very wise to highly restrict its use.

TBT is a biocide which means it kills or disrupts metabolic systems in a broad range of organisms including humans and is also very persistent. Publications on the topic indicate that it takes 20 to 40 years for an aquatic community to recover from the effects of TBT contaminated sediment.

TBT also bioaccumulates so fish feeding at the top of the food chain are contaminated and organisms eating those fish can exhibit the negative metabolic effects of TBT which are well documented. Otters have been negatively affected in some areas of North America.

There are no or few anti-fouling paints that are completely non-toxic. So I try to pick the least worst one which is effective. One post above mentions the challenges of keeping a boat in the Sea of Cortez and it is indeed challenging. We cleaned the bottom at least once a month while there. The same paint (copper based) is still going incredibly strong one year on in French Polynesia with no bottom cleaning.
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Old 15-02-2020, 01:55   #98
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
As much a wive's tale as adding pepper to anti fouling paint.
i'm sorry...i know everyone is entitled to their opinion...but in this case my opinion is based upon fact ie i've done it...it worked (actually i't's not technically an opinion...it's a report)

whereas your opinion is based upon...what exactly ?

(btw i make comment about pepper, but i'm inclined to agree with you)

cheers,
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Old 15-02-2020, 02:44   #99
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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China, India, and North Korea still manufacture and use DDT.
China I think sells it to Africa.
I have studied Malaria at least a little, and am certain that I could pretty much wipe it out on the Continent of Africa with a dozen Ag aircraft.
I tried getting General Electric interested in this as I certified the first aircraft to use their new turboprop engine, and assumed about the best possible possible Press for GE would be “GE aircraft save millions of babies a year” Better than imagination at work anyway.
But I couldn’t get any traction.

You see in spraying for “bugs” an extremely low volume of spray is needed as the bug will be just as dead if it is hit with a microscopic drop, or drowned in pesticide, also an extremely wide swath can be used as your not concerned with drift or off target application.

In the Kingdom of Morocco our aircraft have been used for decades to stop the locust plagues that come out of the Sahara, nothing can eradicate an insect plague like an aircraft can.
The walking though the villages and hand spraying the houses and passing out mosquito nets just can’t have much of an effect.
Just two of our aircraft keep the Cayman Islands mosquito population in check, one could do it, but a spare is a good idea.

GE never displayed any interest, which astonished me.

Nothing wrong with DDT when used in a scientific way to eradicate harmful pests

DDT got its bad name when it was adopted by the agriculture industry and over applied ,misused

As for TBT . It’s deadly . People who use this product for recreational yachting should be ostracized, driven out of town ......Then punished with the full force of the law
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Old 15-02-2020, 04:06   #100
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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TBT doesn't seem to so effective on trolls; in fact there is a body of evidence on CF that suggest they thrive on it.
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Old 15-02-2020, 07:25   #101
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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i'm sorry...i know everyone is entitled to their opinion...but in this case my opinion is based upon fact ie i've done it...
Show me the scientific evidence (not a layman's "opinion") that Roundup (a systemic herbicide intended for use on land plants) is effective in an anti fouling paint against ANY aquatic organisms and I'll eat my words. But you can't because there isn't any. You know why there isn't any? Because it doesn't work. If it did, you'd find it in commercially-available anti fouling paints all over the world.
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Old 15-02-2020, 08:59   #102
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

No just because there isn't a paper isn't proof roundup doesn't work if mixed with bottom paint. All it proves is there is no paper study of it.
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Old 15-02-2020, 09:03   #103
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

It's also possible that's it's been investigated by bottom paint companies and they found reasons not to pursue it.
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Old 15-02-2020, 09:15   #104
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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قُولُوا آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنزِلَ إِلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَمَا أُوتِيَ النَّبِيُّونَ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِّنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
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Old 15-02-2020, 09:32   #105
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Re: Adding TBT to bottom paint

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Originally Posted by fstbttms View Post
Show me the scientific evidence (not a layman's "opinion") that Roundup (a systemic herbicide intended for use on land plants) is effective in an anti fouling paint against ANY aquatic organisms and I'll eat my words. But you can't because there isn't any. You know why there isn't any? Because it doesn't work. If it did, you'd find it in commercially-available anti fouling paints all over the world.
Start to eat then

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/27/science/27observ.html
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