Adding second bilge pump

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Perstarebob

In reply to Skipmac , How do you know that your alarm is working ?

I test it periodically. Invert the dual function bilge pump switch so the float disk activates the alarm switch and there you go.

Originally Posted by Perstarebob

Many boats will leak for a long time until the alarms go off or the batteries fail.

Use a small, low power draw pump to deal with incidental leaks. With a large house battery system the pump should not kill the batteries unless there is a large leak which will exceed the pump's capacity to remove, the water level rises and the alarm goes off.

Originally Posted by Perstarebob

My auto pump is always mounted higher than my " wet Foot " indicator pump !

Sorry I don't quite understand this. Not sure what you mean by a wet foot indicator pump. Is the auto pump your primary pump or is the wet foot pump your primary pump? By primary I mean the pump that is on all the time and removes minor leaks, water dripping from the stuffing box, etc.

So is your auto pump your high volume emergency pump?

My system is intended to alert me to a major water intrusion. Say you're motoring along and a hose on the engine ruptures overwhelming the primary IE small, always on dewatering pump. Alarm goes off warning me of high water, I activate the dual 4000 gph emergency pumps if needed while I deal with the leak or figure out why the primary pump isn't working or whatever.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Perstarebob

My auto pump is always mounted higher than my " wet Foot " indicator pump !

Never mind the question in my previous post. Went back to read your post and realized what the wet foot pump is.

But aren't they both auto pumps IE both on some kind of float or water sensor switch?

What if you aren't in the cockpit to get your feet wet? I

is your auto pump loud enough you can hear it over the engine running (my alarm is and I'll be adding an indicator light to the primary pump as well).

If you like it and it works for you fine. For me my system offers additional advantages and peace of mind.

[sparrowhawk1]

When you wire your bilge pumps it's a good idea to not go through the main battery switch. Allowing them to work when the battery switch is off. As a side note I also have my solar and wind generators on a separate(somewhat hidden) switch because they can be damaged if disconnected from the battery. Also having an indicator (on while operating) light on each pump switch is a good idea

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by CarlF

I would install the largest bilge pump you can justify (say Rule 3900 gph) with a 1 1/2" hose. Mount the pump high enough in the bilge so it doesn't get wet in normal conditions. Any switch will do since it also won't normally get wet or be cycled (although do test it occasionally).

For the cell service I have had this unit for several years.

GSM GPS Alarm Autodial SMS Pager Vehicle Car Boat Moto | eBay

There now are much cheaper units available but I don't know if they work as well. I use the alarm in the US with a T-mobile pay-as-you-go SIM. It also worked with a SIM for Batelco in the Bahamas. There's no monthly fee and you pay less than $0.10 a text message. I have mine set to send me a daily text even if there's no alarm (I enjoy hearing from the boat). In the text it tells me:

a) Voltage (e.g. that the batteries are above 13v meaning the float charger is working)

b) Temperature in the boat

Alarms are sent immediately if a) the voltage drops below 13v (boat unplugged or someone started the engines). b) the boat goes outside the GPS "geo-fence" area. c) A motion detector goes off. d) the temperature is out of my set range e) the 2nd bilge pump turns on.

I can also call it and see if the 1st bilge pump is running at that moment as well as "listen" inside the boat for other alarms sounding. I haven't figured out a way for it to tell me number of bilge pump cycles which I'd really like.

Has been working great. Costs less than $50 a year even with the daily SMS status message.

Carl

Interesting idea.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Never install a check valve in a bilge pump line.

yes, the jury has been out on check valves for a long time. Most say no.

[hamburking]

Originally Posted by Perstarebob

I put the discharge of a small auto pump into my cockpit , I knew when the boat was making water because the water ran on your feet . When we went ashore we put a 2 gallon bucket under the discharge and could tell upon return if we had a leak . Of course I had several other pumps installed . i do not trust alarms and whistles , I trust wet feet .

I also have the bilge pump discharge into the cockpit. Very refreshing.

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by Utahsailor

Planning to install a second float switch a few inches above the present one for a second bilge pump.

1. Is there a problem sharing the present outflow line between the two pumps
2. recommendations for bilge pumps
3. An alarm will be added to the second switch, recommendations?
4. Does anyone have experience with a simple cell based alerting system for this and other security needs?

Sorry for the blizzard of questions but last few weeks have been heavy work weeks.

Hi Utah Sailor,

Some quick responses sharing what we chose to do based on past experience in several cruising sailboat:

1- Sharing discharge line: Don't. You are inviting problems and reduced flow. Run separate, appropriately sized discharge lines for each pump.

2- Pumps: We use the Whale SuperSub automatic pumps for our maintenance pumps [i.e., keep the bilge dry..] They have proved to be very dependable, leave only a 1/4" of water remaining, and don't generate any noticeable IR on the radios...

We also put a simple counter on our primary bilge pump and that count gets recorded in the daily log...

If you don't use an automatic bilge pump as your primary, you may want to consider installing a delay circuit so the pump doesn't cycle on and off in a lumpy anchorage... [i.e., a simple 15 second delay works wonders on the float style pumps. The CruzPro EFS20 has this capability and more built in to their bilge pump monitoring device...]

Secondary pump(s)- use the biggest you can afford, or two... or three...

If going offshore, consider a crash pump: you only need it once...

3- Alarm; something that is too loud. We have our high-water alarm on a deafening piezo unit inside the boat, and it is also connected to the airhorn to alert fellow cruisers and us on shore... [if anyone is within earshot...] ALWAYS make sure you can mute alarms. Once you are alerted they have served their purpose and from then on only interfere with communications during a time you can least afford it.

4- Security System: Last year I installed the cell based system from Siren Marine because we had to unexpectedly leave the boat over winter to tend to land based responsibilities elsewhere... It saved the day a couple of times [blog references below...] Great unit, lots of features, remotely programmable, and excellent customer service... The provided SIM card works in 180 countries... Details about the choice and installation are in this blog post. If you are interested, you can read about how it already paid for itself in this post...

Have fun with your projects. They are all worthwhile...

[Boatyarddog]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

Never install a check valve in a bilge pump line.

Sent from my iPad SV Cloud Duster

[HopCar]

"We also put a simple counter on our primary bilge pump and that count gets recorded in the daily log..."


I think a counter is a great idea but I'm also thinking an hour meter might give you more useful information. What do you guys think?

[wrwakefield]

Originally Posted by HopCar

"We also put a simple counter on our primary bilge pump and that count gets recorded in the daily log..."


I think a counter is a great idea but I'm also thinking an hour meter might give you more useful information. What do you guys think?

Good thinking: recording the time [pump run durations] is the other half of the equation... I tried in years past to find a timer that would record short durations and ended up with a simple 12VDC analog clock that was only on for the time the pump ran.

The analog clock would advance a few seconds/minutes each time the pump ran and turn off again. Start it at noon and you have our total run time since your last reset to noon.

[Hour meters usually record in 10th's of hours so aren't as useful for this purpose... It would take many months before my primary bilge pump would reach the 6 minute mark for total run time and advance the hour meter by a 10th. There may be other meters out there that record shorter durations (minute meters?) but I haven't looked because we have an alternate method for gathering that info, below...]

On our current boat, the remote vessel monitoring system I mentioned in my earlier response on this thread] takes care of that for us [it still records whether we have cell connectivity or not and updates when within cell coverage. [It sends a text alert when the primary bilge pump starts and again when stops running, among many other things...]

We love useful data too!

Cheers!

[Terra Nova]

Pretty sure hour meters advance in 1/10-hour increments, even if the pump only runs for a few seconds.

[Tampabayfireman]

Just my .02 1/2 worth. I have your typical main bilge on a on/off/manual switch with a second pump 12" above that. A couple yrs ago relatives were visiting with younger kids and didn't thing anything about it. 3-4 days later walking by panel with bilge lights and noticed hi water pump on. Open bilge hatch and holy s$$$! Water! Full panic check power and switches and primary in off position. Flip on and no more water. Now no damage other than parrot learning more bad words. So I redid entire bilge setup. Still orig primary pump. Hi water alarm on independent battery between primary and secondary pump. Secondary pump tied to separate alarm and third pump on manual switch all 3000 or 4000 gph rated pumps. Overkill maybe but rather have and not need than need and not have. Reason for alarm between pri and sec pumps is give time to look for leak /flooding before gets past bilge and hard to locate.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Tayana42]

Originally Posted by Tampabayfireman

Just my .02 1/2 worth. I have your typical main bilge on a on/off/manual switch with a second pump 12" above that. A couple yrs ago relatives were visiting with younger kids and didn't thing anything about it. 3-4 days later walking by panel with bilge lights and noticed hi water pump on. Open bilge hatch and holy s$$$! Water! Full panic check power and switches and primary in off position. Flip on and no more water. Now no damage other than parrot learning more bad words. So I redid entire bilge setup. Still orig primary pump. Hi water alarm on independent battery between primary and secondary pump. Secondary pump tied to separate alarm and third pump on manual switch all 3000 or 4000 gph rated pumps. Overkill maybe but rather have and not need than need and not have. Reason for alarm between pri and sec pumps is give time to look for leak /flooding before gets past bilge and hard to locate.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

Good pump set up. But did you figure out where the water was coming from?


S/V B'Shert

[Sandero]

My boat's bilges are quite dry... the only water in them has been fresh water plumbing leaks... or "spills". The engine room bilge only has a bit of water from the dripless shaft. It has a manual cockpit located pump and a small automatic rule on an auto/manual/off switch. There is another manual large volume manual pump for the main bilge and a 2nd large volume pump with a hose outlet. The bilges are separated - no limber holes except some for passage of wires or hoses.

[Tampabayfireman]

On a lot of older Irwins everything except kitchen sink and toilets drain to the bilge. So showers, a/c, bath sinks all went to the bilge. Yep bad idea. Changed that last year at haul out. Now a/c is only thing draining there.