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Old 16-11-2022, 13:21   #1
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Adding copper powder to antifouling

Hi,

For the next antifouling process I am thinking about adding copper powder 45um to the Hempel NCT or to Seajet 033.

Does anyone know the proper mix ratio?

Thank you very much!!!

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Old 16-11-2022, 18:06   #2
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Read this thread first:
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...nt-203606.html
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Old 16-11-2022, 18:38   #3
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

If you believe you are smarter AND know more about bottom paint that the chemists who formulated the paint... I guess you will go ahead no matter what anybody else says.

But consider...

I worked with product formulation chemists a lot in my career. I hope you are not insulted if I say THEY know more about their product than you do. If making it work better was that simple, they would do it.

If you truly believe that MORE copper is the right and simple answer, then you should just buy a paint with more copper...
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Old 16-11-2022, 21:22   #4
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Someone should make a recipe list of homebrew antifouling

Apparently people were patenting their antifouling concoctions as early as 1600s which "probably" contained copper but they didn't really know about the effect of copper as antifouling

Interesting to note that humans worked copper since prehistory it was only in 1761 that copper (in the form of sheathing) was used for its antifouling effect (by the Brits); the first Europeans had reached India by sea 300 years earlier so of course people had used other formulations with varying success before then since ancient days including charring, lead sheathing, wood sheathing, animal hides, pitch tar and wax etc.
So why did it take 300 years to put it together?

Of course the introduction of steel bottom ships caused other problems that had to be solved

A good read

Marine fouling and its prevention ; prepared for Bureau of Ships, Navy Dept. 1952
https://darchive.mblwhoilibrary.org/handle/1912/191


Cyprus is named after copper. Drop that factoid at a party to impress the lads/ladies!
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Old 16-11-2022, 22:35   #5
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

So has anyone tried "pounded glass in a mixture of oil tar and wax" lately because the patent expired a few hundred years ago
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Old 16-11-2022, 22:59   #6
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

red lead was what my grandfather used on his wooden boat.
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Old 16-11-2022, 23:09   #7
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

The dis incentive to produce a truly long life antifouling is huge and it’s not too much of a stretch to suggest that the lightbulb conspiracy ( Phoebus conspiracy) in 1920 has had an effect regarding the pursuit of excellence with bottom paint. Just imagine the impact on the paint industry of a bottom paint that lasted 10 years and was totally non toxic, what company would deliberately erode its earnings by producing a way better product, particularly in this economic climate?
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Old 17-11-2022, 00:51   #8
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItDepends View Post
If you believe you are smarter AND know more about bottom paint that the chemists who formulated the paint... I guess you will go ahead no matter what anybody else says.

But consider...

I worked with product formulation chemists a lot in my career. I hope you are not insulted if I say THEY know more about their product than you do. If making it work better was that simple, they would do it.

If you truly believe that MORE copper is the right and simple answer, then you should just buy a paint with more copper...
In the EU I believe there are limits of how much copper can be used.
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Old 17-11-2022, 02:25   #9
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Don't forget to add some kryptonite... I've heard that it works really well on super fouling species.

Jim
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Old 17-11-2022, 02:42   #10
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

You, me and many others have thought making a better antifouling paint, and some of us have tried cayenne pepper, eggwhite, copper, biocides, antibiotic and what have you.
Normally I agree with 'ItDepends', but really the paint manufacturers are not in favour finding an antifoul that works for 5, 10 or more years. That would be akin to killing the golden goose.
But at the same time, I do not mess with the antifoul. I just put it on, yearly or every 3 years, depending on where i am.

I would say that antifoul paint of the future is not copper or biocides, it will be in the realm of non-stick. hehehe, then the issue is of course to get that 'paint' to stick to the hull in the first place.
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Old 17-11-2022, 03:32   #11
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Adding cayenne just cracks me up every time I hear about it. The active molecule, capsaicin, is pretty much only against mammals…

“ Capsaicin (8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide) (/kæpˈseɪsɪn/ or /kæpˈseɪəsɪn/) is an active component of chili peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is a chemical irritant for mammals…”
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Old 17-11-2022, 06:21   #12
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
, what company would deliberately erode its earnings by producing a way better product, particularly in this economic climate?
A company trying to compete with other companies producing competing products as long as there is an effective marketplace dynamic



In reading the historical background it seems it was the military that took the lead in developing shipbottom paint not private industry, and it's been only pretty recently that actual science was applied to the issue to discover that the issue is controlling release rate of the toxic element! The Norfolk Yards in US is apparently where the military cooked up their concoction involded easy to find material, the difficulty was application. Once they determined the basic principles it was only in early 60s that the modern paints came along
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Old 17-11-2022, 06:23   #13
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Conspiracy against long-life products? Let's see....


Synthetic engine oils and long life antifreeze. I can tell you from close personal experience that these had major repercussions within the industries, caused bankruptcies, and that didn't slow down their development one bit.


The challenge is not adding more copper, the challenge is getting the release rate just right, over several years.
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Old 17-11-2022, 06:24   #14
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamicatana View Post
Adding cayenne just cracks me up every time I hear about it. The active molecule, capsaicin, is pretty much only against mammals…

“ Capsaicin (8-methyl-N-vanillyl-6-nonenamide) (/kæpˈseɪsɪn/ or /kæpˈseɪəsɪn/) is an active component of chili peppers, which are plants belonging to the genus Capsicum. It is a chemical irritant for mammals…”
And a great way to keep mammalian squirrels out of bird feed
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Old 17-11-2022, 06:39   #15
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Re: Adding copper powder to antifouling

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And a great way to keep mammalian squirrels out of bird feed
It was my experience the squirrels got used to the taste, but maybe because it was in Mississippi/Louisiana, ha ha
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