Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-12-2017, 04:22   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,745
Adding a mechanical tie bar

I've got a Prout Snowgoose 35 with twin transom hung rudders.

I run a hydraulic steering system with two vetus MTC72 steering rams linked together in series with a fluid tie bar. Each ram is capable of 706Nm of torque.

The setup works well, and I carry a spare good ram as a backup and plenty of hydraulic fluid.

All that being said. I would like to have a mechanical tie bar on board for added security. On a recent 200m passage, I found the autopilot doesn't function well under sail (25knt winds, 3m swell on aft quarter) on a singe rudder.

The distance between the rudders from eyelet to eyelet is 306cm. I'm wondering what is the best way to approach getting a suitably strong bar made up?

Ideally the bar would have some adjustment, and be able to separated into two pieces for storage.

I also need to figure out what material, and size it should be from. 32mm 316 steel tubing, carbon fibre, or something else.
mikedefieslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 04:48   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 10,492
Images: 75
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

on the elite the tie bar is 1" 316 probably (12guage,1.5mm).with female threaded ends welded on for adjusting the couplings,which are 7/16UNF(12mm~)
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 04:50   #3
Registered User
 
micah719's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Somewhere in Germany
Boat: OEM, proportional
Posts: 1,437
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

Is this your boat?

SNOWGOOSE 35 (PROUT) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Have you any other uses for the bar/s aboard?
What kind of budget had you in mind?
__________________
Ps 139:9-10 If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me.
micah719 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 06:36   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,210
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

The tie bar itself is a fairly simple fabrication, you can get a the spherical rod ends in 316 stainless from many vendors check online at car McMaster. The only question is how can you connect those to the Rudders I'm sure something will need to be fabricated in stainless
motion30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 07:40   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,745
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by micah719 View Post
Is this your boat?

SNOWGOOSE 35 (PROUT) sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Have you any other uses for the bar/s aboard?
What kind of budget had you in mind?
Yep that's the boat.

No other uses for the tube as it would be too short for a whisker pole.

Current Plan is to get a tube of 316 and have nuts welded to the end to screw in the track rod ends. It would just be nicer if their was an easy way to split the tube for storage.

Coupling to the rudders is easy (at the dock or in anchorage) as they have long drop arms that my two rams attach to.

Budget is probably a few hundred euros if necessary.

The basics of it are simple. I guess it can get complicated if I want fancy materials, or two rods hooked up to a centrally mounted universal joint.
mikedefieslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 09:51   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Tampa Bay, FL
Boat: Prout Event 34
Posts: 28
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

Just cut the tube in half (or get 2 shorter pieces), thread the ends and use a plumbing type coupling. Or get a piece next size larger to use as a sleeve and drill thru for a bolt. I would prefer the 2nd as it's simpler to make and you can make the sleeve as long (strong) as you want.
john2445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 10:31   #7
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 313
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

John Mardall here, from Vetus Maxwell Group. If you can provide some more information, I will try to help. You mention that the autopilot was working on one rudder, but at least in a conventional hydraulic steering system, the autopilot is controlling an electro-hydraulic pump which works through the complete system, moving both rudders. If you are using some form of tiller pilot moving one of the rudders mechanically, are there by-pass valves on the cylinders to allow them to move independent of the hydraulic system? A solid tie bar would connect the tiller arms, but those are usually below deck, so that to connect them on a catamaran would require the tie bar to pass through the inner topsides of the hulls, which is the main reason for using a hydraulic tie bar. Etc., etc.- more info please.
JOHNMARDALL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 12:38   #8
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 8,872
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedefieslife View Post
Yep that's the boat.

No other uses for the tube as it would be too short for a whisker pole.

Current Plan is to get a tube of 316 and have nuts welded to the end to screw in the track rod ends. It would just be nicer if their was an easy way to split the tube for storage.

Coupling to the rudders is easy (at the dock or in anchorage) as they have long drop arms that my two rams attach to.

Budget is probably a few hundred euros if necessary.

The basics of it are simple. I guess it can get complicated if I want fancy materials, or two rods hooked up to a centrally mounted universal joint.
Take a rough sketch of what you want to a local machine shop. The guy making it may surprise you if he has been a machinist for years.
Cadence is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2017, 13:09   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: ABC's
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 35
Posts: 1,745
Re: Adding a mechanical tie bar

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
John Mardall here, from Vetus Maxwell Group. If you can provide some more information, I will try to help. You mention that the autopilot was working on one rudder, but at least in a conventional hydraulic steering system, the autopilot is controlling an electro-hydraulic pump which works through the complete system, moving both rudders. If you are using some form of tiller pilot moving one of the rudders mechanically, are there by-pass valves on the cylinders to allow them to move independent of the hydraulic system? A solid tie bar would connect the tiller arms, but those are usually below deck, so that to connect them on a catamaran would require the tie bar to pass through the inner topsides of the hulls, which is the main reason for using a hydraulic tie bar. Etc., etc.- more info please.
Probably easier to PM you as story of the one rudder will detract from the conversation.
mikedefieslife is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cal, mechanic

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hydraulic Tie Bar Issues mikereed100 Multihull Sailboats 6 05-11-2013 19:23
Mechanical Option to Bypass the Hydraulic Autopilot with Mechanical Steering ? windtraveler Seamanship & Boat Handling 1 18-10-2010 07:47
Reefing tie downs witzgall Seamanship & Boat Handling 16 11-09-2008 16:19
Tie 12v & 24v grounds together? OldYachtie Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 12 04-07-2007 09:19
Stern tie in BC Charlie Anchoring & Mooring 9 04-06-2007 22:53

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:00.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.