ZDDP additive VP2003

[vtomanov]

Have some one used ZDDP oil additive to VP2003 ? Suggestions ? Feedback ?

[doog]

Ive reviewed data on Archoil 100 which has this in it, and the highest rated oil is Shell Rotella T6 and its already added to this oil. For me I'd say yes, its great but would defer to any more experienced industrial mechanic's opinion.

[Pete7]

VT, we did try semi-synthetic oil one year that was left over. Engine didn't like starting at all. Ended up draining it out and re-filling back again with a basic oil. So for me, its a no.

This worth a read:

Oil for yacht engines – Cox Engineering

[ShoreFun]

A lot of people selling ZDDP will tell you how much you need it in everything. As a person involved in the antique car hobby I have seen it for a long time. ZDDP is in most oils already. For emissions reasons it is at the levels of the 1950's for gasoline cars. Not sure about diesel oils. You need to elevate the ZDDP in engines with much higher valve spring pressures. Like when you build a racing engine.

Unless a person is a qualified oil engineer or somehow qualified and has done testing I doubt anyone here is qualified to give you a correct answer, including me.
Well not fully true, the following is a correct answer:

Contact Volvo or look in the manuals for required ZDDP levels. Keep in mind they may recommend a particular oil knowing the ZDDP levels are correct.

Anybody who answers that you should use this or that and does not provide detailed evidence for why is just talking without proof. My brother has never seen a diesel Mercedes engine fail because of the 'wrong' oil. No oil, broken lines, but not because the oil. Including from the guy who change his oil every 100,000 miles or so. I think that car only got to 600,000 miles before being totalled in an accident.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by ShoreFun

A lot of people selling ZDDP will tell you how much you need it in everything. As a person involved in the antique car hobby I have seen it for a long time. ZDDP is in most oils already. For emissions reasons it is at the levels of the 1950's for gasoline cars. Not sure about diesel oils. You need to elevate the ZDDP in engines with much higher valve spring pressures. Like when you build a racing engine.

Unless a person is a qualified oil engineer or somehow qualified and has done testing I doubt anyone here is qualified to give you a correct answer, including me.
Well not fully true, the following is a correct answer:

Contact Volvo or look in the manuals for required ZDDP levels. Keep in mind they may recommend a particular oil knowing the ZDDP levels are correct.

Anybody who answers that you should use this or that and does not provide detailed evidence for why is just talking without proof. My brother has never seen a diesel Mercedes engine fail because of the 'wrong' oil. No oil, broken lines, but not because the oil. Including from the guy who change his oil every 100,000 miles or so. I think that car only got to 600,000 miles before being totalled in an accident.

(I formulated some lubes in a former life.)


a. All passenger car and truck oils contain ZDDP or a close cousin.
b. Overdose will increase ash content (it is a zinc phosphate), leading to a number of problems. Just don't. If more would help we would have added it.
c. Change the oil as recommended. Watch for water contamination (big issue on seawater boats). Don't let it get low.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by ShoreFun

Contact Volvo or look in the manuals for required ZDDP levels. Keep in mind they may recommend a particular oil knowing the ZDDP levels are correct.

Volvo's manual is from the early 1980s. The only recommendation is the oil is to CD-4 specification from memory. Of course that oil spec has long been superseded. We tend to buy CF-4.

Pete

[doog]

Pete7
I read the article you referenced and will be changing out the Rotella and replacing it with Delo ASAP, and this could well be the issue in my engine. My perkins runs at low RPM and has always run very cool so a synthetic, I see from the article is a really bad idea. Just thankful I found this information before having some serious damage!
Excellent article we should all be aware of!
Doog

[vtomanov]

I’ve experimented with different oils from 0w40 to 15w40 full syth, semi and natural, the engine seems to like best the 10w40 semi-syth from Lidl

https://offers.kd2.org/pics/d3/e3/d3e322c76c84a1de64fa4e4f7bea21fe368f9afa.jpg

[vtomanov]

The additive that I’m thinking about is this :

https://www.frost.co.uk/zddplus-anti-wear-oil-additive/

[Pete7]

I am just not sure its needed. These engines are now 3 decades old, ours is 33.

One of the problems with additives is carbon building up behind the piston rings when running at low revs or tickover. This causes the rings to move out and press against the cylinder bores causing hot spots.

I think Thinwater's advice is spot on. Regular oil chances and good filters for maintenance then when using the engine don't idle or use low revs for a prolonged period. Adding solar helped here because we haven't needed to run the engine without powering the yacht for some years now.

Our 2003 is raw water cooled. Last winter I took off the "flute" pipe end fittings in the cylinder head and used a piece of 6mm threaded rod to clean out the pipe, but it wasn't too bad. I then did an acid flush of the block. Took out the thermostat and poured in an acid mix of e bay and left it for an hour, occasionally topping up. The colour of the frothy mix was a dark green black mix bubbling away nicely.

I then assembled the engine and ran it without the thermostat in gear to flush it. Lots of white "milk" coloured fluid came out. Next popped a new thermostat back in. There are two types as the RWC engines run slightly cooler. Also the RWC thermostat is made of a mix of metals, well you can imagine what happens to that in a mix of hot salt water, so worth checking.

You don't need the alternator to run the engine on the RWC type as the water pump runs off the cam shaft.

Final thing worth looking at is the alternator negative wire which goes to the block. This is a tiny wire about 4mm, so replaced that with a piece of 25mm wiring going straight to the negative batteries buss bar. The engine has a separate negative wire also going to the buss bar.

I am hoping to keep the engine going for some years yet, so worth investing some time on it for minimal cost.

Pete

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Pete7

I am just not sure its needed. These engines are now 3 decades old, ours is 33.

One of the problems with additives is carbon building up behind the piston rings when running at low revs or tickover. This causes the rings to move out and press against the cylinder bores causing hot spots.

I think Thinwater's advice is spot on. Regular oil chances and good filters for maintenance then when using the engine don't idle or use low revs for a prolonged period. Adding solar helped here because we haven't needed to run the engine without powering the yacht for some years now.

Our 2003 is raw water cooled. Last winter I took off the "flute" pipe end fittings in the cylinder head and used a piece of 6mm threaded rod to clean out the pipe, but it wasn't too bad. I then did an acid flush of the block. Took out the thermostat and poured in an acid mix of e bay and left it for an hour, occasionally topping up. The colour of the frothy mix was a dark green black mix bubbling away nicely.

I then assembled the engine and ran it without the thermostat in gear to flush it. Lots of white "milk" coloured fluid came out. Next popped a new thermostat back in. There are two types as the RWC engines run slightly cooler. Also the RWC thermostat is made of a mix of metals, well you can imagine what happens to that in a mix of hot salt water, so worth checking.

You don't need the alternator to run the engine on the RWC type as the water pump runs off the cam shaft.

Final thing worth looking at is the alternator negative wire which goes to the block. This is a tiny wire about 4mm, so replaced that with a piece of 25mm wiring going straight to the negative batteries buss bar. The engine has a separate negative wire also going to the buss bar.

I am hoping to keep the engine going for some years yet, so worth investing some time on it for minimal cost.

Pete

He makes a good point on ground wires. A floating ground is a leading cause of severe cooling system corrosion. The coolant ever turns rusty, it is always either a leaking head gasket (too much O2 in the coolant) or a floating ground (the circulation can create a current).