Cruisers Forum
 


Closed Thread
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-06-2023, 15:31   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

I have a Yanmar 3JH40 installed as a repower two years ago with a ZF15 MIV. One week after the engine was installed it was shaking at idel( 8 to 850rpm) to the extent that the cpu mounts broke and the cpu fell off. Yanmar provided new rubber mounts and within 4 weeks the same thing happened. The installation mechanic said that he felt that the engine was shaking abnormally although it ran fine throughout its power range. We sent a video to MacBoring( the engine supplier) . They indicated that they were discussing the issue with Yanmar. The issue was dropped and I, foolishly didn’t follow up. Two seasons pass…the engine has a 3 year warranty. It has developed a transmission leak at the rear seal which reminded me to follow up with Mac Boring and Yanmar as the shaking at idle never stopped and I suspect that it caused the transmission leak.( I auxiliary mounted the cpu to protect it from the shaking engine.).
I Pursue the matter several weeks ago and send MacBoring a video of the engine at idle. They speak wit people at Yanmar. Yanmar responds by saying that a shaking engine hasn’t been a recurring problem and they have no bulletins regarding this problem. I may want to consider changing the mounts at my expense.

I am pissed.

First. Just because Yanmar doesn’t regularly hear about this problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem with this particular 3JH40. The engine is shaking and one can only conclude that some internal issue is causing it that occurred during the manufacture of this particular engine.

Second. While he mounts might treat the problem it doesn’t solve the problem. The boat doesn’t cause the vibration nor does the drive train since it occurs in neutral no shaft turning.

Third. If the V drive weight necessitates different non-standard mounts Yanmar engineers or MacBoring Engineers should have specified the appropriate mounts in the first place since the engine and transmission were ordered and delivered as a package.

Yanmar is responding by saying there is no problem and we are not going to address the issue or provide any help.
Mac Boring is saying “ sorry Yanmar won’t help but we are willing to sell you new mounts”
Both responses are unacceptable examples of customer disservice.

Responsible companies would:
A. Examine the engines and determine the cause of the shaking and resolve it.
B. If different mounts are needed, supply those mounts with installation.

Any other response is a huge disservice and a black eye on both companies.
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 16:10   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 1,388
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

When you did the repower, did you change the engine mounts? If yes, did you install the mounts that Yanmar recommends for this engine?

You seem to dismiss the possibility that bad engine mounts could be the cause of this, I am here to tell you they absolutely can. If this vibration occurs when in neutral, the mounts are a go-to cause. If the vibration only happens in gear, then the alignment of the shaft should be addressed first, and if perfect, the mounts are the next likely cause.

If you ignored the recommendations for proper engine mounts at the original install, that that's on you.

Engine manufacturers make many very specific recommendations for a proper installation. From air supply, to fuel lines, cooling water, electrical details, and exhaust configuration. All those things are the installers responsibility to acquire and install correctly. I see no reason why engine mounts should be different.

Now... if you install the right engine mounts, and the problem still exists... NOW you can be annoyed.
SailingHarmonie is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 16:14   #3
Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,223
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

2 years of use after installation indicates acceptance of the original work. Yanmar are pretty good at hearing customer complaints, sometimes you need to politely raise your voice a little to be heard but if there is a known and identifiable engine problem they will listen and respond.
Mackboring has a pretty good reputation as a Yanmar dealership so I suspect they would have installed the engine “ by the book”. Has the alignment been checked over the 2 year period , (those Vee drives can be a pain to line up)and more importantly is the engine weight evenly distributed across the 2 pairs of mounts. The pre common rail 3JH engines used the 100 mounts on one side and 150’s on the other but I don’t know if this odd layout was used on the 3JH40.
skipperpete is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 16:27   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 859
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

If this were my situation, I would try to quantify the problem. You could do it with an accelerometer, or maybe a video camera and some creativity (glass of water sitting on a flat surface?). Measure before and after you replace the mounts, document what you did. Ask the dealer or Yanmar for access to another boat with the same or similar engine, and make same measurements. Without measuring something, it's hard for them to take it seriously, because all engines shake, and you could be some crazy customer with unrealistic expectations. Even if your observation is legitimate (very well could be), you have to imagine the kind of nonsense they probably get accused of and approach the complaint accordingly, with more information to motivate them to take a look for themselves. I hope you get it worked out under warranty, good luck.
markxengineerin is online now  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:03   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricktravis View Post
I have a Yanmar 3JH40 installed as a repower two years ago with a ZF15 MIV. One week after the engine was installed it was shaking at idel( 8 to 850rpm) to the extent that the cpu mounts broke and the cpu fell off. Yanmar provided new rubber mounts and within 4 weeks the same thing happened. The installation mechanic said that he felt that the engine was shaking abnormally although it ran fine throughout its power range. We sent a video to MacBoring( the engine supplier) . They indicated that they were discussing the issue with Yanmar. The issue was dropped and I, foolishly didn’t follow up. Two seasons pass…the engine has a 3 year warranty. It has developed a transmission leak at the rear seal which reminded me to follow up with Mac Boring and Yanmar as the shaking at idle never stopped and I suspect that it caused the transmission leak.( I auxiliary mounted the cpu to protect it from the shaking engine.).
I Pursue the matter several weeks ago and send MacBoring a video of the engine at idle. They speak wit people at Yanmar. Yanmar responds by saying that a shaking engine hasn’t been a recurring problem and they have no bulletins regarding this problem. I may want to consider changing the mounts at my expense.

I am pissed.

First. Just because Yanmar doesn’t regularly hear about this problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem with this particular 3JH40. The engine is shaking and one can only conclude that some internal issue is causing it that occurred during the manufacture of this particular engine.

Second. While he mounts might treat the problem it doesn’t solve the problem. The boat doesn’t cause the vibration nor does the drive train since it occurs in neutral no shaft turning.

Third. If the V drive weight necessitates different non-standard mounts Yanmar engineers or MacBoring Engineers should have specified the appropriate mounts in the first place since the engine and transmission were ordered and delivered as a package.

Yanmar is responding by saying there is no problem and we are not going to address the issue or provide any help.
Mac Boring is saying “ sorry Yanmar won’t help but we are willing to sell you new mounts”
Both responses are unacceptable examples of customer disservice.

Responsible companies would:
A. Examine the engines and determine the cause of the shaking and resolve it.
B. If different mounts are needed, supply those mounts with installation.

Any other response is a huge disservice and a black eye on both companies.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses.
The engine was delivered to the installers from MacBorind as a package. The engine, transmission and mounts were all assembled as a single unit.
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:05   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricktravis View Post
I have a Yanmar 3JH40 installed as a repower two years ago with a ZF15 MIV. One week after the engine was installed it was shaking at idel( 8 to 850rpm) to the extent that the cpu mounts broke and the cpu fell off. Yanmar provided new rubber mounts and within 4 weeks the same thing happened. The installation mechanic said that he felt that the engine was shaking abnormally although it ran fine throughout its power range. We sent a video to MacBoring( the engine supplier) . They indicated that they were discussing the issue with Yanmar. The issue was dropped and I, foolishly didn’t follow up. Two seasons pass…the engine has a 3 year warranty. It has developed a transmission leak at the rear seal which reminded me to follow up with Mac Boring and Yanmar as the shaking at idle never stopped and I suspect that it caused the transmission leak.( I auxiliary mounted the cpu to protect it from the shaking engine.).
I Pursue the matter several weeks ago and send MacBoring a video of the engine at idle. They speak wit people at Yanmar. Yanmar responds by saying that a shaking engine hasn’t been a recurring problem and they have no bulletins regarding this problem. I may want to consider changing the mounts at my expense.

I am pissed.

First. Just because Yanmar doesn’t regularly hear about this problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem with this particular 3JH40. The engine is shaking and one can only conclude that some internal issue is causing it that occurred during the manufacture of this particular engine.

Second. While he mounts might treat the problem it doesn’t solve the problem. The boat doesn’t cause the vibration nor does the drive train since it occurs in neutral no shaft turning.

Third. If the V drive weight necessitates different non-standard mounts Yanmar engineers or MacBoring Engineers should have specified the appropriate mounts in the first place since the engine and transmission were ordered and delivered as a package.

Yanmar is responding by saying there is no problem and we are not going to address the issue or provide any help.
Mac Boring is saying “ sorry Yanmar won’t help but we are willing to sell you new mounts”
Both responses are unacceptable examples of customer disservice.

Responsible companies would:
A. Examine the engines and determine the cause of the shaking and resolve it.
B. If different mounts are needed, supply those mounts with installation.

Any other response is a huge disservice and a black eye on both companies.

Additionally, Mac Boring and Yanmar were notified of the concern twice within the first month of the install. Now is follow-up to the original notification.
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:09   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricktravis View Post
I have a Yanmar 3JH40 installed as a repower two years ago with a ZF15 MIV. One week after the engine was installed it was shaking at idel( 8 to 850rpm) to the extent that the cpu mounts broke and the cpu fell off. Yanmar provided new rubber mounts and within 4 weeks the same thing happened. The installation mechanic said that he felt that the engine was shaking abnormally although it ran fine throughout its power range. We sent a video to MacBoring( the engine supplier) . They indicated that they were discussing the issue with Yanmar. The issue was dropped and I, foolishly didn’t follow up. Two seasons pass…the engine has a 3 year warranty. It has developed a transmission leak at the rear seal which reminded me to follow up with Mac Boring and Yanmar as the shaking at idle never stopped and I suspect that it caused the transmission leak.( I auxiliary mounted the cpu to protect it from the shaking engine.).
I Pursue the matter several weeks ago and send MacBoring a video of the engine at idle. They speak wit people at Yanmar. Yanmar responds by saying that a shaking engine hasn’t been a recurring problem and they have no bulletins regarding this problem. I may want to consider changing the mounts at my expense.

I am pissed.

First. Just because Yanmar doesn’t regularly hear about this problem doesn’t mean it’s not a problem with this particular 3JH40. The engine is shaking and one can only conclude that some internal issue is causing it that occurred during the manufacture of this particular engine.

Second. While he mounts might treat the problem it doesn’t solve the problem. The boat doesn’t cause the vibration nor does the drive train since it occurs in neutral no shaft turning.

Third. If the V drive weight necessitates different non-standard mounts Yanmar engineers or MacBoring Engineers should have specified the appropriate mounts in the first place since the engine and transmission were ordered and delivered as a package.

Yanmar is responding by saying there is no problem and we are not going to address the issue or provide any help.
Mac Boring is saying “ sorry Yanmar won’t help but we are willing to sell you new mounts”
Both responses are unacceptable examples of customer disservice.

Responsible companies would:
A. Examine the engines and determine the cause of the shaking and resolve it.
B. If different mounts are needed, supply those mounts with installation.

Any other response is a huge disservice and a black eye on both companies.
I’m willing to try the new recommended mounts. My point is that the proper mounts should have supplied in the first place. Therefore, new mounts should be supplied and installed at the expense of Yanmar and/or MacBoring.
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:11   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

I’m willing to try the new recommended mounts. My point is that the proper mounts should have supplied in the first place. Therefore, new mounts should be supplied and installed at the expense of Yanmar and/or MacBoring.
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:14   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 2,839
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Quote:
Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie View Post
When you did the repower, did you change the engine mounts? If yes, did you install the mounts that Yanmar recommends for this engine?

You seem to dismiss the possibility that bad engine mounts could be the cause of this, I am here to tell you they absolutely can. If this vibration occurs when in neutral, the mounts are a go-to cause. If the vibration only happens in gear, then the alignment of the shaft should be addressed first, and if perfect, the mounts are the next likely cause.

If you ignored the recommendations for proper engine mounts at the original install, that that's on you.

Engine manufacturers make many very specific recommendations for a proper installation. From air supply, to fuel lines, cooling water, electrical details, and exhaust configuration. All those things are the installers responsibility to acquire and install correctly. I see no reason why engine mounts should be different.

Now... if you install the right engine mounts, and the problem still exists... NOW you can be annoyed.
Agreed. This sounds like a mounts problem. Mounts will have a resonate frequency, determined by the hardness of the rubber, the size of the mount, and the weight of the motor. If the resonate frequency of the combination is the same as the idle speed of the motor, it will vibrate like crazy. For a new engine I expect Yanmar would spec the exact mount to use. If the installer used a similar mount but with the wrong hardness of rubber, that could explain it.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:19   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 24
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Hi Warren. The engine, transmission and mounts were all new and all delivered to the installer by MacBoring
Ricktravis is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 17:32   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Morgan 382
Posts: 2,839
Re: Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

That doesn't ensure they are correct. Only that it isn't your mistake. If you have the mount mfgr, part number, and shore hardness stamped on the mount, the mount manufacturer can tell you with the weight of your engine what the resonate frequency will be, and what RPM the engine would vibrate at.

I would be frustrated too, and MacBoring (Mack Boring?) probably should do that for you. Should have done it before delivery. But, after 2 years it might be hard to convince them.

And if it is determined that the mounts are correct, then something else is wrong. Some sort of fuel delivery problem could cause an engine to idle roughly.
__________________
-Warren
wholybee is offline  
Old 06-06-2023, 18:57   #12
Moderator

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,223
Yanmar3 JH40 and MacBoring

Just because the correct mounts were supplied with the engine doesn’t mean they were installed in the correct positions if they still maintain the two different hardness numbers.
I just did a search on 3JH40 mounts and they’re the same as all the early 3JH series.
Another thing to watch for is if the adjusting bolt is at the top of its range, if so, measure the length of the exposed thread and make a spacer a little less thick than that length and put it under the mount base.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3142.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	277.7 KB
ID:	276413   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3141.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	271.1 KB
ID:	276414  

skipperpete is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
VHF and AIS Radiowave Propagation and VHF and AIS Radio Range ka4wja Marine Electronics 46 25-10-2023 08:41
Sailing and Boating Funny Cartoons and Photos and Art Steadman Uhlich Flotsam & Sailing Miscellany 102 07-01-2021 21:37
Cruising routes and advice from Melbourne to cairns and then to Malaysia and Thailand caldawson Sailor Logs & Cruising Plans 3 30-01-2018 17:19
I have heard of people going back and forth from USA to MX and back and no a Passport shorebird2 The Sailor's Confessional 33 02-06-2014 04:29

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.