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Old 01-02-2017, 05:52   #31
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

I had this problem. Turns out the connection to the transmission neutral interlock was corroded. I'd clean it up and then have to do it again a few months later. Finally just eliminated the connection. No problems since. Bob
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Old 09-02-2017, 09:14   #32
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

I'm confused by the use of an extra relay. Isn't that the job of the solenoid on the side of the starter? Would seem that larger sized wires and attention to clean connections would do the same thing. Is the relay at the starter inadequate or perhaps need replaced? I'm not anything close to an electronics guy. Just looking for an explanation for why this works and what deficiency is it addressing to help me understand.
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Old 09-02-2017, 10:44   #33
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by hsi88 View Post
I'm confused by the use of an extra relay. Isn't that the job of the solenoid on the side of the starter? Would seem that larger sized wires and attention to clean connections would do the same thing. Is the relay at the starter inadequate or perhaps need replaced? I'm not anything close to an electronics guy. Just looking for an explanation for why this works and what deficiency is it addressing to help me understand.
My understanding is that the solenoid, although it acts as a relay, still requires enough umph that the silly little wires from the Yanmar panel often don't cut it. While larger wires would undoubtedly do the trick, on my set-up not only is the run to the engine long enough that fitting a relay is cheaper and easier but also, on the back of my Yanmar panel, the wires come out of a sealed mother-board type thing so getting to the wire at the back of the starter is not possible.
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Old 09-02-2017, 10:49   #34
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
My understanding is that the solenoid, although it acts as a relay, still requires enough umph that the silly little wires from the Yanmar panel often don't cut it. While larger wires would undoubtedly do the trick, on my set-up not only is the run to the engine long enough that fitting a relay is cheaper and easier but also, on the back of my Yanmar panel, the wires come out of a sealed mother-board type thing so getting to the wire at the back of the starter is not possible.

That is it to some extent, the other part is add years to non tinned wires which will raise resistance and what was marginal but worked when the boat was new, doesn't work decades later.
If you ever had a VW Bus, you got used to the dim glow of the generator light, the generator was working, just the long wire when it got old didn't pass enough juice to keep the light from barely illuminating.
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Old 09-02-2017, 12:07   #35
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

Thanks! My Yanmar manual says nothing about it, but my panel was, repositioned closer to the wheel so is even farther away than when the boat was new. A good reason to add an extra relay to the springtime rewiring list. Reliable starting is certainly a high priority for me!
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Old 09-02-2017, 13:01   #36
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

The only thing a relay does is allow you to draw the solenoid current from the very heavy cable that goes to the starter motor.
But this is completely unnecessary and might even be counterproductive. It is usually not the wire from the ignition that fails, it's one or more of the several connections in that wire. By adding a wire from the ignition to switch a heavy wire from the starter motor, you have made 6 connections and all of them are as likely to corrode as the original. Furthermore the relay itself is a mechanical device and will eventually fail.
If you think about it, the original wire did the job for many years and then a connection corroded so much that it failed. I accept that the original wire might be thin so if you put a larger wire directly from the ignition to the solenoid, you will have many yeas of happy starting,

I don't deny that those who put in a relay might have had happy years of starting but so have the people who did not get a corroded joint originally. Remember the KISS principle.
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Old 10-02-2017, 01:38   #37
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

I had an intermittent starting problem on a volvo for about a year. I was at Mackinaw island 50 miles from home and I had to hire a van to come pick up nine passengers and take them home when the engine wouldn't start. I came back the next morning turned the key and it started right up. Had a volvo tech try and find the answer to no avail. Then last spring when doing Initial start up with the hatch open someone caught a glimpse of a spark on the positive battery cable connection on the starter. It appeared that from the initial install the nut had never ben tightened down and the connection was just bouncing around arcing itself on and off the stud causing random failures to start.
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Old 27-06-2019, 08:29   #38
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

As an update to this thread, after installing a relay on my port engine it has started without issue reliably ever since. This weekend my starboard 4JH failed to start. It only has 350hrs from new. I traced the current from the switch down to the area of the starter and found the fault with a Yanmar-installed relay just below the starter motor. The relay is not shown in the service manual. A $10 replacement relay from an auto store has fixed it. I wired it the same as my photo in post #12. It appears that IT IS appropriate to have a relay before the starter to supply the current that the silly Yanmar panel wires cannot. Hopefully this info saves someone time (and money) when diagnosing a similar problem.

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Old 27-06-2019, 08:53   #39
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by dlymn View Post
If you think about it, the original wire did the job for many years and then a connection corroded so much that it failed. I accept that the original wire might be thin so if you put a larger wire directly from the ignition to the solenoid, you will have many yeas of happy starting,
Exactly. I've done this twice on two different boats. Neither has failed after many years.
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Old 27-06-2019, 09:57   #40
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
As an update to this thread, after installing a relay on my port engine it has started without issue reliably ever since. This weekend my starboard 4JH failed to start. It only has 350hrs from new. I traced the current from the switch down to the area of the starter and found the fault with a Yanmar-installed relay just below the starter motor. The relay is not shown in the service manual. A $10 replacement relay from an auto store has fixed it. I wired it the same as my photo in post #12. It appears that IT IS appropriate to have a relay before the starter to supply the current that the silly Yanmar panel wires cannot. Hopefully this info saves someone time (and money) when diagnosing a similar problem.

Attachment 194849
told you that in post 28

I didn't even take that yanmar relay off, just left it there

glad you git it fixed
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Old 27-06-2019, 10:05   #41
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hopefully this info saves someone time (and money) when diagnosing a similar problem.

Glad you got it fixed. Almost all the Hunter engine questions on different boating forums point to these relays, too. In fact, some/most/all never had them until the new owners put them in.


This one of dozens of hits on "Yanmar relay" on sbo.com


https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...yanmar%20relay


Just for future folks who search and find this thread.
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Old 27-06-2019, 14:49   #42
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

Thanks for the follow up
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Old 02-06-2020, 16:45   #43
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by Privilege View Post
As an update to this thread, after installing a relay on my port engine it has started without issue reliably ever since. This weekend my starboard 4JH failed to start. It only has 350hrs from new. I traced the current from the switch down to the area of the starter and found the fault with a Yanmar-installed relay just below the starter motor. The relay is not shown in the service manual. A $10 replacement relay from an auto store has fixed it. I wired it the same as my photo in post #12. It appears that IT IS appropriate to have a relay before the starter to supply the current that the silly Yanmar panel wires cannot. Hopefully this info saves someone time (and money) when diagnosing a similar problem.

Attachment 194849
I have the exact same issue in that that small relay under the starter solednoid is corroded. I'm ready to bypass the faulty relay and went to the hardware store, but not sure what to get. They have an RL44, RL45, and a bunch of ELB Relays for LED/Flashers. The RL44 and RL45 have the 85, 86, 87, 87a on them, the ELB just have posts marked ELB. How do I know which to go with for the three wires we have on the Yanmar relay (Ground, Postitive from key Switch, power to solenoid)?
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Old 02-06-2020, 21:25   #44
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by captNordy View Post
I have the exact same issue in that that small relay under the starter solednoid is corroded. I'm ready to bypass the faulty relay and went to the hardware store, but not sure what to get. They have an RL44, RL45, and a bunch of ELB Relays for LED/Flashers. The RL44 and RL45 have the 85, 86, 87, 87a on them, the ELB just have posts marked ELB. How do I know which to go with for the three wires we have on the Yanmar relay (Ground, Postitive from key Switch, power to solenoid)?
The Yanmar start relays that I have seen have four wires (ground/+ve from key switch/power from battery (usually large lug on the starter solenoid)/power to solenoid (small terminal)
If you wish to use the relay pictured in your hand, connect it as follows.

Pin 85 to ground.
Pin 86 to positive from key switch.
Pin 30 to battery positive (usually the big lug on the stater solenoid).
pin 87 to the solenoid operate (small terminal).
Pin 87a unused.

The relay coil will operate when positive is applied to pin 86 via the key switch. The other side of the relay coil is connected to ground via pin 85.

The relay contacts (pin 30 and pin 87) close and applies positive the solenoid coil via the small terminal on the solenoid. This causes the solenoid to operate and supply starting current to the starter motor.

Releasing the key switch after starting causes the relay to relax which causes the solenoid to disengage.

If your existing start relay only has three wires, tell us what model Yanmar engine you have and I will check the circuit diagram for that model!
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Old 02-06-2020, 23:18   #45
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Re: Yanmar occasionally won't start, then does.

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Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
The Yanmar start relays that I have seen have four wires (ground/+ve from key switch/power from battery (usually large lug on the starter solenoid)/power to solenoid (small terminal)
If you wish to use the relay pictured in your hand, connect it as follows.

Pin 85 to ground.
Pin 86 to positive from key switch.
Pin 30 to battery positive (usually the big lug on the stater solenoid).
pin 87 to the solenoid operate (small terminal).
Pin 87a unused.

The relay coil will operate when positive is applied to pin 86 via the key switch. The other side of the relay coil is connected to ground via pin 85.

The relay contacts (pin 30 and pin 87) close and applies positive the solenoid coil via the small terminal on the solenoid. This causes the solenoid to operate and supply starting current to the starter motor.

Releasing the key switch after starting causes the relay to relax which causes the solenoid to disengage.

If your existing start relay only has three wires, tell us what model Yanmar engine you have and I will check the circuit diagram for that model!

I would guess (yes a GUESS ) that in the case of a three wire relay the metal case acts as the neutral as it is bolted to the engine.
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