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Old 16-09-2019, 16:54   #31
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautilus2 View Post
Small update Wotname: both alternators bench tested, both found to have “IC terbakar” or a burnt out “IC”. Which my best guess is maybe Internal Contoller”. . Could this be the internal regulator or something in the regulator.?
Subject to translation aspects, yes that will be the internal regulator. It is a solid state device without any individual replaceable components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautilus2 View Post
Both repaired and ready to use. So something in the boat wiring is where we need to look?
.
There isn't too much to go wrong with the boat wiring but it is concerning that both alternator have the same fault (assuming the repairer knows what he is doing).

I suggest you only connect one alternator, if that doesn't work, don't try the other one until the boat wiring is proved OK.

Read this thread for more info on testing the boat wiring, especially the later posts in it.

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...-223262-2.html
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Old 16-09-2019, 18:49   #32
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Thanks Wotname. Still waiting for my elusive mechanic, we will work through these suggested tests then. One suggestion in the other thread that testing the wrong wire might start a fire was enough to ensure i wait with patience!

Quote . "if you want to test the dash light, you can ground the lamp wire at the alt with the key on. the light will come on. but you need to know which is which. if you ground the ignition wire, you will either set the boat on fire.... or blow a hidden fuse that may takes hours to track down."
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Old 16-09-2019, 18:55   #33
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautilus2 View Post
Thanks Wotname. Still waiting for my elusive mechanic, we will work through these suggested tests then. One suggestion in the other thread that testing the wrong wire might start a fire was enough to ensure i wait with patience!

Quote . "if you want to test the dash light, you can ground the lamp wire at the alt with the key on. the light will come on. but you need to know which is which. if you ground the ignition wire, you will either set the boat on fire.... or blow a hidden fuse that may takes hours to track down."
This tip from that thread will save you a lot of heartache.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smac999 View Post
when I test I just stick a 1a fuse inline when I ground it. has saved me at least once before
Hopefully the mechanic's electrical mate will be right across the right way to test the wiring.
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Old 16-09-2019, 22:10   #34
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Wotname, mechanic has installed alternator and tested various. Attached is photo of the master volt regulator installed. There is 12v going in but nothin coming out he says. He says need new mastervolt or by pass so we have alternator charging but no Rpm or engine hours. No mastervolt spare but maybe can get one brought over in a few weeks.

Or maybe he can find a similar system locally, but he is thinking about that.

Your opinion- could this masrtervolt regulator be the issue. .?do they sometimes fail like this.? Sorry photo upside down again.
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Old 16-09-2019, 23:26   #35
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautilus2 View Post
Wotname, mechanic has installed alternator and tested various. Attached is photo of the master volt regulator installed. There is 12v going in but nothin coming out he says. He says need new mastervolt or by pass so we have alternator charging but no Rpm or engine hours. No mastervolt spare but maybe can get one brought over in a few weeks.

Or maybe he can find a similar system locally, but he is thinking about that.

Your opinion- could this masrtervolt regulator be the issue. .?do they sometimes fail like this.? Sorry photo upside down again.
Whoa.....
So you have an external regulator fitted to the alternator(the Mastervolt shown)?????

Or is the mastervolt part of the solar regulator???

This changes everything!

Most of my previous advice has been predicated on the assumption that the alternator was stock as supplied by Yanmar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
...
I'm going to assume you have a stock alternator with an internal regulator. If not, only some of the following will be relevant (but who knows which bit ).

So if stock standard, then the two pin T connector should be connected. One of the wires goes to the charge lamp and the other to the internal regulator.
....
This might explain explain why the T connector was not connected!

What did the guy do when he repaired the alternator the other day?

How is the external regulator connected to the alternator?

Did the electrical guy go onboard?

This should easy for a reasonable marine electrician to sort out but hard to do by the internet without knowing how your system is wired?
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Old 17-09-2019, 00:55   #36
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

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Whoa.....
So you have an external regulator fitted to the alternator(the Mastervolt shown)?????
Yes , but I didn’t know that is what it was!! Do now!!

Or is the mastervolt part of the solar regulator???
No. Only regulates the alternator.

This changes everything!

Most of my previous advice has been predicated on the assumption that the alternator was stock as supplied by Yanmar.
Yes the alternator is stock Hitachi. The IC (internal regulator) on both alternators was ‘burnt’, and after bench testing they are fixed. ( I assume regulators were replaced). According to Hendro the mechanic, the fault started in the Voltmaster Pro, then caused the alternator x 2 to be affected.

This might explain explain why the T connector was not connected!
Noted

What did the guy do when he repaired the alternator the other day?
Excuse the simplicity of answer - he fixed the regulator.. I assume replaced.

How is the external regulator connected to the alternator?
I have left the Voltmaster pro manual aboard and am ashore for a while. Will post diagram later. The five cables on the upside down photo are L to R : heat sensor , field, + Bat, reg on, ground. If that helps.

Did the electrical guy go onboard? , No . Was a bit surprised but H is a meticulous chap and arrived confident he would figure it out

This should easy for a reasonable marine electrician to sort out but hard to do by the internet without knowing how your system is wired?
As a bit of background FYI, H owns Samudera Diesel, a reasonless large and busy Marine workshop on Lombok, certainly knows boats and diesels, andI guess has accumulated his electrical knowledge over the years.
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Old 17-09-2019, 04:00   #37
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

OK, well more information is always a good thing and helps to find a solution

I'm not an expert on all the different types of external regulators and the various ways they can be wired to various alternators but I know the basics...and can read / understand installation manuals!

There can be only one regulator for the alternator - either internal or external.

If your alternator is the stock Yanmar supplied unit, it originally had an internal regulator. Whoever fitted the external regulator would have had to modify this alternator. Usually by removing (or at least disconnecting) the internal regulator and rewiring the rotor coil (brushes) to another connector or re-purposing the existing T connector. The exact method used will depend on the actual model of the original alternator and to some extent, the whim of person who fitted the external regulator. Or perhaps a different alternator without any internal regulator was fitted???

So I'm wondering if the repaired alternator(s) have been returned to an as new condition complete with the internal regulator; if so, they won't work with the external regulator. Or did the repair guy know the alternators have to work with an external regulator and configure them accordingly.

I'm sorry I can't give a simple easy answer on how to fix the no-charging issue but as it isn't stock, we need to know all the details of the modifications done to make the external regulator work.

Then there is the question of the external regulator - is it still serviceable? I'm not sure how to test it remotely but others may know more. There will be a way - perhaps the manual has more detail - I will try to find one tomorrow.

Can you find the make / model numbers of both of the alternators?
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Old 17-09-2019, 04:22   #38
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Subject to translation aspects, yes that will be the internal regulator...
Indeed.


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Old 17-09-2019, 04:28   #39
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Indeed.


Gord, is that a 3YM30 stock alternator?

If so, here is a couple more that Yanmar have used on the 3YM30 engines.
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Old 17-09-2019, 04:42   #40
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Sorry Wotname, I cannot find any part number or number at all on the alternator. Just ‘Hitachi’ on the back of original , which is installed. It does have a green coloured band around the housing. Best I can do is photos. Damn upside down again!,
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Old 17-09-2019, 04:50   #41
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Hitachi LR180-03C wiring diagram:

Thanks, Wotname.


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Old 17-09-2019, 04:58   #42
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Attachment 200002Wiring diagram from the Mastervolt Alpha Pro manual.Fyi.
The wiring itself in the boat is again hard for me to trace and compare to that diagram.
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Old 17-09-2019, 05:18   #43
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

See also:
“The 12 Volt Doctor's Alternator Book” ~ Edgar J. Beyn
http://www.melody-in-blues.org/downl...lthandbook.pdf
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Old 17-09-2019, 05:19   #44
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

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Originally Posted by Nautilus2 View Post
Attachment 200002Wiring diagram from the Mastervolt Alpha Pro manual.Fyi.
The wiring itself in the boat is again hard for me to trace and compare to that diagram.
That is a good start; at least it tells us how the external regulator was (or should be) wired up.

Now you just need to find out if the alternator is currently suitably modified to accept the blue and red field wires - they should go to the brushes inside the alternator and not to any internal regulator.

Do you know if H had this diagram when he was working on the problem and if the 10 amp and 2 amp fuses are OK (assuming they are fitted as shown)?

Also are switch contacts S1 are working - the switch should make when the engine is running thus putting 12V onto the brown wire to turn the external regulator ON.
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Old 17-09-2019, 06:43   #45
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Re: Yanmar 3YM30 where do I find the tacho sensor point?

Thanks Gord, that is a wonderful book and have downloaded it for a lifetime’ study for me! I am step by step this minute, just want my alternator charging, and if I can get tacho rpm and engine hours I will be in heaven!

Wotname I will prepare a translation for H tomorrow with your detailed info re alternator with internal reg not compatible with external reg. I don’t know for sure if the alternator now has a new internal reg. We only discovered the external reg today. Wow you chaps are amazingly generous with your time and expertise. I truly appreciate it all.

A deadline is looming as I have friends/ crew to meet flying in to our meet point 200 miles away in 10 days. And from there to further east in Indonesia , getting more remote from tech / mechanical repair points. So if H can produce a work around. Ie a locally sourced external reg, or IF we now have an internal reg and he can rewire the system, then maybe we do that. I will be back in Aus in 12 months so. Can sort it properly then.

Interesting intercultural moment today in H’s and my conversations when he said (yet again) you have charging, and I replied no Not charging,the engine is on , and battery reg still only ready 13.2. He finally said, yes charging from solar panels, don’t need alt charge! Lightbulb moment! H has been assuming all along that solar charge is sufficient. Explained it is a secondary power source, and not sufficient to run the big stuff like anchor winch and water maker. And that I REALLY do need a charging alt despite being in the tropics!!
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