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03-01-2020, 21:28
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
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Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
I recently purchased a Cascade 36 sailboat that has a Westerbeke W30 installed. Was told by the previous owners that the engine was started a couple months before I bought it and ran fine. I replaced the alternator because the old one was apparently fried and not present on the engine at the time of purchased. After I had the alternator installed I wanted to see if the engine would crank so I checked the lube oil (full) to the mark carved above the max fill line (actual fill line), Check the transmission oil (full), and the coolant (full). So I decided I would try and crank the engine with the starter to see if it spun freely, when I pressed the start button the crank spun about a quarter turn and then stopped with the starter still trying to turn, I then tried using a wrench to turn the crank shaft, no success. Then a breaker bar to turn the crank shaft, no success. Do Westerbeke W30 have a cylinder decompression lever, could the water pump or transmission have seized. I pulled the valve cover, rockers, and the valve springs, The valves move freely up and down( my initial thought was maybe timing was off because crank turn a quarter turn then froze). any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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03-01-2020, 22:23
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sydney Australia
Boat: Fisher pilothouse sloop 32'
Posts: 3,416
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustsam
I recently purchased a Cascade 36 sailboat that has a Westerbeke W30 installed. Was told by the previous owners that the engine was started a couple months before I bought it and ran fine. I replaced the alternator because the old one was apparently fried and not present on the engine at the time of purchased. After I had the alternator installed I wanted to see if the engine would crank so I checked the lube oil (full) to the mark carved above the max fill line (actual fill line), Check the transmission oil (full), and the coolant (full). So I decided I would try and crank the engine with the starter to see if it spun freely, when I pressed the start button the crank spun about a quarter turn and then stopped with the starter still trying to turn, I then tried using a wrench to turn the crank shaft, no success. Then a breaker bar to turn the crank shaft, no success. Do Westerbeke W30 have a cylinder decompression lever, could the water pump or transmission have seized. I pulled the valve cover, rockers, and the valve springs, The valves move freely up and down( my initial thought was maybe timing was off because crank turn a quarter turn then froze). any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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I would suggest that you google hydrolocked engine, that's what it sounds like to me.
__________________
Rob aka Uncle Bob Sydney Australia.
Life is 10% the cards you are dealt, 90% how you play em
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03-01-2020, 23:15
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Canada
Boat: T37
Posts: 2,336
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
My monies in damper plate. Hopefully only spring parts and little to no damage.
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04-01-2020, 18:29
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#4
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,499
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Take the injectors out and turn by hand. See if water comes out.
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04-01-2020, 18:32
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York
Boat: Columbia 50
Posts: 696
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
The w30 has glow plugs - eadiest thing to pull to decompress one....
Matt
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04-01-2020, 19:05
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Minnesota, USA
Boat: 21' trailer sailor & 8' sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,742
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Quote:
Originally Posted by augustsam
I recently purchased a Cascade 36 sailboat that has a Westerbeke W30 installed. Was told by the previous owners that the engine was started a couple months before I bought it and ran fine. I replaced the alternator because the old one was apparently fried and not present on the engine at the time of purchased.
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Hi Sam,
You should have not taken their word as truth concerning the alternator and engine. They should have rebuilt or replaced the alternator and ran the engine to your satisfaction before the purchase. I have been burned under similar conditions with 'too much faith in humanity' during a vehicle purchase, especially in the boat/RV gendre with a little excitement in the air...
Anywhooo, did any of the cylinders seem in compression when you worked the valves? Color of oil on stick?
__________________
Big dreams, small boats...
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04-01-2020, 22:17
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Yeah, water has probably back syphoned into the engine through an open exhaust valve. If the engine rotated a 1/4 turn it's not seized up with the rings rusted to the cylinder walls or internal damage. If there aren't decompression levers on the head pull the injectors or glow plugs and turn the engine over with the raw water seacock closed till the offending cylinder is as dry as you can get it. Compressed air squirted into the offending cylinder would help. Squirt a small amount of oil into the cylinders, with the emphasis on small as you don't want to oil lock the engine, turn the engine over by hand to prove that it's not frozen, spin the engine with the starter a bit to circulate the oil in the cylinders and exhaust any excess oil or remaining water, re-install the injectors/glow plugs, bleed the injectors if necessary, and try and start the engine. If the engine will turn over easily with the starter but won't start, re-bleed the engine all the way to the injectors and try again. If that doesn't get it running, pull the injectors and get them rebuilt or replaced. Time to call in a professional if you haven't done so already if it still won't start. Once you get it running, keep it running till thoroughly warmed up and change the oil. Repeat at least one more time till the oil stays black and doesn't take on a milky brown consistency from water.
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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05-01-2020, 08:12
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Allied Princess 36 MKII
Posts: 490
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
I have been led to believe the back syphon of water into the engine requires excessive cranking with no starting. 1/4 turn should not do this. If it is hydro locked, how long was that water in there?
Using a wrench turn the engine in the opposite direction, is it free? Bumping against the "lock" is it a solid metallic stop or a build up if resistance (compression). Does it push back when you release pressure (compression) or remain where it stopped, usually a sign of mechanical.
There are springs on the flexible damper plate which can simulate the pressure of compression, but it should feel and sound different.
Please let us know what you find, good luck!!
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05-01-2020, 10:09
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: New Franklin, Ohio
Boat: Homebuilt schooner 64 ft. Sold.
Posts: 1,486
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Adeline
I have been led to believe the back syphon of water into the engine requires excessive cranking with no starting. 1/4 turn should not do this. If it is hydro locked, how long was that water in there?
Using a wrench turn the engine in the opposite direction, is it free? Bumping against the "lock" is it a solid metallic stop or a build up if resistance (compression). Does it push back when you release pressure (compression) or remain where it stopped, usually a sign of mechanical.
There are springs on the flexible damper plate which can simulate the pressure of compression, but it should feel and sound different.
Please let us know what you find, good luck!!
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The OP does not know what the actual history of the engine is, yes, water could have siphoned in before he tried to crank the engine.
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05-01-2020, 10:31
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UPSTATE NY
Boat: Cape Dory 27D
Posts: 114
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
I vote on back syphon as the problem. Close water intake.Remove glow plugs, try to turn by hand, if water shoots out that was your problem. Shoot cylinders a good shot of BP BLASTER rust buster and let set a while. Drape rag in area over glow plug holes to catch excess PB Blaster. Turn again by hand several times. Replace glow plugs and hopefully your up and running. Open water intake after it starts.
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05-01-2020, 12:20
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#11
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,251
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
I’m a supporter of S/VAdeline regarding water syphon and the results. An engine thats copped a dose of salt water is almost never able to be rotated after standing for an extended period of time and indeed it makes sense to try to turn the engine against rotation to see if it in fact has surface corrosion in one or two cylinders caused by the pool of acidic seawater in the waterlock or an actual hydrolock. It would be helpful to introduce a bit of lubricant.... atf, diesel, WD40, anything into the cylinders via the gloplug or injector holes before getting too physical with the breaker bar
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05-01-2020, 13:34
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#12
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
If it turned a quarter of a turn, its most likely not internal engine unless something real bad like thrown rod.
It could be a stuck valve though and now most likely a bent push rod, or something external to the engine, like a transmission or dampener plate etc.
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05-01-2020, 16:16
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Boston's North Shore
Boat: Pearson 10M
Posts: 839
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
My first thought was hydro lock, but the OP wrote
. I pulled the valve cover, rockers, and the valve springs, The valves move freely up and down(
So that means no hydro lock to me.
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05-01-2020, 17:03
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2018
Boat: Allied Princess 36 MKII
Posts: 490
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
My biggest concern is the 1/4 turn and if it actually stuck there, ie: cannot counter rotate. I have seen many rusted cylinders where the starter or a wrench managed to push the piston up into a field of rust and only a sledgehammer could get it back out.
I am not familiar with the engine, could removal of injectors or glow plugs allow a peek with a flashlight?
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05-01-2020, 17:23
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 2
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Re: Westerbeke W30 Seized while trying to start
Update: I pulled the glow pugs and injectors, engine still is stuck so this takes hydrolock out of the equation. I forgot to mention the boat is sitting on the hard right now so water would have already had to be in the cylinders for hydrolock to occur, I was also thinking if someone tried starting the engine using a hose attached directly to the water inlet it could have gotten hydrolock. But as I have pulled the injectors and glow plugs this seems not to be the case. The holes for the injectors and the glow plugs do not really give a clear view of inside the cylinders but from the little I can see it looks to be pretty clean. I put some marvels mystery oil down the injector holes, and will keep putting more down just because if one of the pistons did get pushed up into a field of rust it might help it break free. I think next I might start pulling off the bell housing to get a good look at the damper plate to see if something on the back end is causing the engine to seize.
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