Westerbeke 70 'Kiss of Death' ?

[Flyguyid]

I recently read a review on the Hylas 44 which I am considering purchasing ( Hylas 44 Review: The Essense of Hylas Yachts « Jordan Yachts ). The reviewer, Richard Jordan, praises the boat but discourages the purchase of this boat if it is powered with the Westerbeke 70 and refers to this engine as "the kiss of death". However, he does not explain why this engine is bad. Does this engine have a bad reputation? I can find no other negative reviews for the Westerbeke 70. Both of the Hylas 44s I am looking at are equipped with the Westerbeke 70. Thanks for your input.

[GordMay]

Interesting, but I wouldn’t put too much reliance on such a sweeping but unsupported nor explained opinion ➥ Hylas 44 Review: The Essense of Hylas Yachts « Jordan Yachts

Richard Jordan, president of Jordan Yacht and Ship Company, a Fort Lauderdale brokerage that has specialized in the sale of pre-owned Hylas Yachts since 1992.

According to http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ine-25070.html
“The Westerbeke70 is a Perkins 4.182 made under license by Mazda.”

See ➥ http://shop.torresen.com/utility/inc...es_lit/W70.pdf

[Flyguyid]

Thanks Gord,
Does anyone out there have any experience (good or bad) with the Westerbeke 70?

[ChuckSK]

We have a Hylas 44, hull 13, with the Westerbeke 70 engine. The engine is like a larger version of the Perkins 4.108. It is a Perkins 4.182. Ours had 3000 hours when we bought it and it has 3400 hours now.

The Westerbeke 70 is a tough little engine that responds well to tender loving care. Ours was in fair shape when we bought it, but it leaked diesel from the injector bleed-off pipes, the head needed to be re-torqued, the heat exchanger needed to be flushed --well you get the idea. These could be considered maintenance items. The underlying engine itself was strong. We had the engine surveyed before purchase to verify compression, no oil leaks, no bad sounds, no smoke etc.

We are very happy with our Westerbeke 70.

It would be interesting to hear about the experiences that caused the "kiss of death" opinion.

Chuck

[Pblais]

The reviewer, Richard Jordan, praises the boat but discourages the purchase of this boat if it is powered with the Westerbeke 70 and refers to this engine as "the kiss of death". However, he does not explain why this engine is bad.

Without the full details it isn't credible. Reviews are rarely based on any long term experience or study across any serious sample. They are general impressions with a fair amount of bias that may have some depth of experience and maybe some foundation. It's worthless information unless you learn something about why. Knowing why is information you can hold on to.

[Flyguyid]

Thanks everone for your input. Reviewers need to be careful to pass on fact and not unfounded opinion.

[Richard Jordan]

I am going to update my review soon here. Better late than never I guess. I apologize for the vagueness of my comment on W70's on Hyli. Thanks for asking for this clarification, Flyguyid. I take my reviews seriously and do my best to pass on facts. I have done some double checking on this issue to make sure I have the facts right. Here are the concerns with the W70:

1. Parts are very expensive
2. Parts are hard to find
3. Not very many diesel mechanics know how to work this engine

What is your experience with these issues, ChuckSK? Great to hear from a real live owner. I base the "kiss of death" label off the experiences of (1) an early Hylas commissioning agent and (2) an early head delivery captain, (3) my late father who specialized in the sale of brokerage 44's. They all highly recommend you choose a Hylas 44 with either the Perkins 4108 or better yet the 62HP Yanmar.

Sincerely, RJ

[never monday]

Originally Posted by jordanship

I am going to update my review soon here. Better late than never I guess. I apologize for the vagueness of my comment on W70's on Hyli. Thanks for asking for this clarification, Flyguyid. I take my reviews seriously and do my best to pass on facts. I have done some double checking on this issue to make sure I have the facts right. Here are the concerns with the W70:

1. Parts are very expensive
2. Parts are hard to find
3. Not very many diesel mechanics know how to work this engine

What is your experience with these issues, ChuckSK? Great to hear from a real live owner. I base the "kiss of death" label off the experiences of (1) an early Hylas commissioning agent and (2) an early head delivery captain, (3) my late father who specialized in the sale of brokerage 44's. They all highly recommend you choose a Hylas 44 with either the Perkins 4108 or better yet the 62HP Yanmar.

Sincerely, RJ

1. Parts are very expensive - it's a yacht, get used to it. To top that. The youngest W70 is 18 years old, the oldest is 28.

2. Parts are hard to find - not really....Westerbeke has a few

3. Not very many diesel mechanics know how to work this engine - It's a mechanically injected diesel engine, not a rocket motor

[Richard Jordan]

Originally Posted by never monday

1. Parts are very expensive - it's a yacht, get used to it. To top that. The youngest W70 is 18 years old, the oldest is 28.

2. Parts are hard to find - not really....Westerbeke has a few

3. Not very many diesel mechanics know how to work this engine - It's a mechanically injected diesel engine, not a rocket motor

My comments are meant relative to the Perkins 4108 and Yanmar 62HP. Of course marine stuff is expensive. Comparatively, the W70 has more expensive parts that are less available with fewer qualified mechanics.

[ChuckSK]

And that justifies calling the W70 the "Kiss of Death"?

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by never monday

2. Parts are hard to find - not really....Westerbeke has a few

When we were buying one of the factors was many of the B393's had Westerbekes - some of the ones made in the USA.
Its a well known brand in the USA but I was pleased we hung out and for a boat with a Yanmar.
Accross the Pacific even in Tonga which is not the shoppers paradise you wife might like, had a Yanmar sign in a shop.

now, I can truthfully say that the whole way round the world (I only have ocean to go!) theres lots of those Yanmar signs and I havent seen a Westerbeke one.


Mark

[sabray]

If you owned a cummins you wouldnt worry about it breaking down et all

[Richard Jordan]

I admire the Hylas 44 more than any other yacht in her class and would recommend the purchase of one no matter the engine. They sail great, are beautiful, and are quality built. I was recently out in Seattle and was going to preview one or both of those in question. I regret not doing so. One of the Hylas 44's for sale even has the rare offset berth aft. But, all things equal or even somewhat unequal, people should prefer the purchase of a 44 with a 4108 or Yanmar.

I would love to hear your thoughts on my points. There is nothing better than a lively debate to flush out the truth. I value your feedback. For instance, how have you found the availability of W70 parts? No doubt there are good sources if you know who to contact?

Respectfully, RJ

[never monday]

If your going tpo go crusing on a 30 year old engine that has not been refreshed. You have other issues to resolve first.

Second, these are auxilliary engines. They provide power, electricity, water and fridge.
You shouldn't buy a boat based on the engine in it. The soundness of the vessel as a whole is more valuable. Refer to my first statement about going to sea with. 30 year old motor.

A 4-108 is weak at best in that size vessel. Sure it's easy and cheap to fix. But ya better get intamate with it. Because the load on it will cause premature weak and diminished service life.
A repower from the 70 wouldn't be out of line if necessary.

[Chief Engineer]

Suck....Squeeze....BANG....Blow (except detroits)
Scavenge....BANG....Scavenge....BANG

Parts R Parts.......Sometimes it takes imagination to find them

Originally Posted by never monday

Not very many diesel mechanics know how to work this engine - It's a mechanically injected diesel engine, not a rocket motor