Wanted to throw out the topic of Hydro-diesel which gets high marks.

[doog]

Im seeing a new fuel blend of water/diesel which can also be made with gasoline, and a solvent to allow the petro to emulsify with water and it burns cleaner and offers great potential as a new fuel. But currently it's a specialty product offered at high prices.

Now those of us who have looked into making our own biodiesel from cooking oil know that it involves in one process used, a solvent such as ethanol and sometimes water and a mixing process, and its interesting, too, that there are excellent additives such as Fuel-dry that take the water "out" of your fuel but in fact are just making hydro-diesel out of your fuel. And these products are primarily the ethanol and acids that would be used to make this hydro-diesel that can be 30% water or more. (one side effect of which is no smoke from the exhaust).

Anyone playing around with these blends or aware of the chemistry and processes involved? Given the current state of the supply chain, such knowledge might be increasingly valuable, even downright powerful!

Thanks for your thoughts!

[ItDepends]

From a chemical engineer who is very familiar with fuel and fuel blends. I am going to tell you something you do not want to hear.

There is NO WAY that adding water to diesel fuel (or gasoline) adds ANYTHING to the energy output. It can only DECREASE it--a LOT. This is totally bogus and a complete ripoff.

Think about this for just ONE second. If adding water to diesel made it burn better and give more energy per gallon don't you think Exxon would have done it a LONG time ago?

"Hydro-Diesel" is a scam front, back, center, and every which way.

Of course you can believe whatever you want, but SOMEBODY is laughing AT you (not with you) all the way to the bank.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by doog

Im seeing a new fuel blend of water/diesel which can also be made with gasoline, and a solvent to allow the petro to emulsify with water and it burns cleaner and offers great potential as a new fuel. But currently it's a specialty product offered at high prices.

Not new. Here's a patent from 1994 for hydrodiesel.
https://patents.google.com/patent/CN1113937A/en

[doog]

In reply to "ItDepends"
Well we know the internal combustion engine wastes about 3/4 of the energy burned and water injection has been used in aircraft and other engines at varying levels with good returns in performance. Youre well aware of this and its not about 'adding' to the fuel but to the combustion cycle which is only 30 % efficient and a large part of the fuel function is cooling/lubricating, not burning. Not here to argue with someone defending an industry where we could easily have 50 to 100 MPG vehicles and already do, Aptera, VW Atom, Elio..and vastly more efficient engines have been proven and patented a decade ago but ...its about policy and politics, like our old Iraq invasion era when the auto makers were putting out the 10 MPG ford expedition as if to say here you go! And our policies were clear when there is the VW atom that gets 100 MPG, the elio and aptera car and a whole host of others all buried by the darling of our policy makers Tesla which is as environmentally fatal and ...Spoken like an industry professional!

[doog]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not new. Here's a patent from 1994 for hydrodiesel.
https://patents.google.com/patent/CN1113937A/en

thanks, the beauty of patents is although you cannot make/sell a product you can make your own or adapt it to your own use. And yes I doubt this will be sold because the sellers are getting exactly what they want without doing this at all. Anyway I just saw a fellow testing it in a go-cart and it worked great with the nice side effect of eliminating smoke and smell, like the bio-diesel as well. Exactly the same performance.

Yep, had a look and the catalyst is similar to fuel drier additive, as one would suspect.

[doog]

Seems that Marspec and Trillion are the companies/distributors taking up this option on an industrial scale now. I believe sharing a link is against website policy so anyone would need to google themselves, or Hydro-diesel. (also works with gas engines, I understand)

[roryboy]

I think what ItDepends is trying to say is, 'Water does not burn.' A simple and practical point.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by roryboy

I think what ItDepends is trying to say is, 'Water does not burn.' A simple and practical point.

Water doesn't burn, but as seen with water injection on some high performance engines, vaporizing some water along with the combustion process can have positive effects in at least some situations.

[roryboy]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Water doesn't burn, but as seen with water injection on some high performance engines, vaporizing some water along with the combustion process can have positive effects in at least some situations.

This is true. You can inject water to inhibit the burn of the fuel and prevent detonation in high performance piston engines. Because water does not burn.

[Rumrace]

Water will snap a crank shaft crush a piston rod hole a piston blow ahead clean off but a tiny bit of vapour is a great way to clean and engine.
Can’t wait to see it work.
I basically hate all cast iron engines. Look forward to Grandson terrorizing some lake with a pair of 800hp hydrogen aluminum motors. That I believe. Charging his new Hemp 3k batteries. Seems if we can imagine it we can make it.

[valhalla360]

Isn't there an old cheech and chong bit about the govt having a car that runs on water?

[PippaB]

Well, here's how they claim it works, from way back in 2018. With a 25% increase in fuel economy, a lower cost, no changes needed to the engines, and at least a 4-year runway, have to wonder why we don't see all Walmart or Amazon trucks with HydroDiesel™ logos all over them?



https://utt.edu.tt/uploads/3_Mr._Ale...droDiesel_.pdf

On a side note "hydrodiesel" is also used to denote mixing hydrogen gas with diesel at the point of combustion, and that has proven to meet all the claims (25% increase in fuel efficiency, lower emissions) of the water product except for the cost. Gaseous hydrogen injection has so far proven to be far too expensive to be cost effective at getting those benefits.

[Rumrace]

Dave's not here man. And it was steam turd engine man.

https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2022/01/12/2365887/0/en/Hemp-Inc-Reports-Back-to-the-Future-with-Hemp-Batteries.html

[doog]

OK the patent, (thanks, PS its chinese) is from 95 and its not new, but the PRODUCT is new. I could post links and videos but most websites prohibit link sharing. Anyone can google the Youtube of hydrodiesel burning beautifully and see the engines running on this fuel offered by the licensees of this patent. My point was that fuel drier is the same stuff as the catalyst they use to blend this stuff and its not only not rocket science its an EZ bake recipe. I have a diesel heater that used to cost $4000 from Webasto and I paid $100 for it, and it works perhaps better than the original webasto and I need fuel.
Those of us who read know that Hitler made fuel during WWII and it can be made from anything organic with heat and catalysts, coal, bio-waste, garbage...Fisher-Tropsch process and steam reformation. ItDepends is well aware of this history and tech. South Africa made their own fuel through the apartheid years when nobody would sell to them and it costs about $2.50 per gallon.
Bucky Fuller pointed out that in the 60s we had technology that could have given us all we need in abundance but instead we have a world of critical scarcity. Amory Lovins, the same...A Road Not Taken. My final observation? I cant define obscenity but I know it when I see it! (and its a 10 MPG Navigator being marketed while we bury Iraqis in the sand with tanks to dominate the oil nations, while in Japan the Prius is being built) I wont bring up 911 and the issues related.
If it would work they would do it? No, thats exactly why they dont do it! If it works the golden goose would get away, And with that I will leave it to anyone who likes to research the history and technology which is all in our hands. And as long as its in 'industry' hands, industry who are in partnership with policy makers, All of the millionaires, we will have the world that we do where we are told inflation is around 8% when everything we buy has gone up about 30%.

[Rumrace]

A few years back we took a heavily modified BMW and stuffed a hydrogen gas factory in it. Just a pickle bottle wrapped in foam. A bunch of washers small current and some sterile water my son made. On the dyno the real wheels delivered 408hp @ 6,000 RPM. Amazing for a 3.2litre engine but forged pistons big bore stroke and 8psi super charger. Running hydrogen gas in front of map from an accumulator bad news 389hp and fluctuating. Likely cause of outcry system. What we’re getting is an 18% increase in gas Milage but like adding micro plastics to tooth paste a filler

Toyota Yanmar Yamaha are using liquid hydrogen a legitimate renewable fuel.