Volvo MD2030 - injector parts missing

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Are you absolutely sure it's a fuel knock? Bit scary saying you had to vaccuum copper bits out of cylinder What's the fuel filtration system like? I'd be a little surprised if injection pump was bad at those hours. Of course bad maintenance can kill anything.
Bit of a worry tho if it's already had one rebuild & evidently a bad one at that. Assume you've done valve clearances & timing. Compression check?

Should have said 'injector pump cleaning or rebuild in the near future'...

Also, it isn't clear that OP is aware that the MD2030 has neither Swedish, nor English ancestry, but is actually Oriental, specifically Japanese, designed and manufactured by ISM, built under license for Perkins (who is now owned by Caterpillar, if I'm current). The MD2030 is Volvo's model, I think Perkin's is Perama 30, and the ISM designation is 103-10, if memory serves. All internal engine parts should be the same, except for the cost, which should decrease as one goes down the food chain...

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Can you describe the knock more fully? Does it improve when the engine warms? Doesn't seem likely, but does it 'follow' the injectors? Did the work you've already done improve the starting ability?

Certainly sounds like a pump rebuild may be in your future...

Waited a few days to really notice any changes.

The starting is definitely better. Use to wind over for a couple of seconds before turning over.

The knock when first started is a very loud sharp knock in cylinders 1 and 2. It does go away in terms of it isnt a sharp sounding knock at higher revs (only takes an increase to say 1500rpm and above to make it sound better) but it definitely doesnt run as smooth as my port engine at full rpm (2500+ rpm). So I would say the knock is still there but it just is altered by the higher rpm? When I return to idle the knock is still there though slighty better once warmed up.

But yes at idle it sounds like hitting steel with a hammer. its a good knock but as I said if I crack the injector fuel feed pipe nut on each cylinder 1 or 2 is disappears in that cylinder instantly.

AS for following the injector, I would say no as earlier I had swapped 1 and 2 and it didnt remove or effect it .And when I went and got the 3 injectors rebuilt last week I did not track which one was which so it's safe to say they went into different cylinders and the knock is as it was prior to the injector rebuilds. So it is cylinder related.


Overall the engine runs terrifically as well if that isnt too odd to say given the issue. Doesnt burn oil like my port engine (port has blowby issue next on the list), and cruises along at 2500 rpm+ for 24 hours non stop without skipping a beat.

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Are you absolutely sure it's a fuel knock? Bit scary saying you had to vaccuum copper bits out of cylinder What's the fuel filtration system like? I'd be a little surprised if injection pump was bad at those hours. Of course bad maintenance can kill anything.
Bit of a worry tho if it's already had one rebuild & evidently a bad one at that. Assume you've done valve clearances & timing. Compression check?

I am no diesel mechanic but the cracking of the injector feed nuts which instantly stop the knock in that cylinder seem proof enough that its a fuel knock. Could I be wrong?

Well the copper bits were the old copper gaskets that has basically disintegrated and fell down when I removed the injectors. They were not in the cylinder but in the bottom of the recess the injectors screw down into.

No valve clearances or timing yet as we are out on our way windward to Grenada on an insurance time limit. Just got to the BVI and have 11 days for Grenada so no time for sitting around with the valve cover off. Compression is definitely something I want to do soon on both my engines but again don't have the ability on board. Once in Grenada I will look around for someone to perform this or just buy the gauge myself

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

Should have said 'injector pump cleaning or rebuild in the near future'...

Also, it isn't clear that OP is aware that the MD2030 has neither Swedish, nor English ancestry, but is actually Oriental, specifically Japanese, designed and manufactured by ISM, built under license for Perkins (who is now owned by Caterpillar, if I'm current). The MD2030 is Volvo's model, I think Perkin's is Perama 30, and the ISM designation is 103-10, if memory serves. All internal engine parts should be the same, except for the cost, which should decrease as one goes down the food chain...

Yes aware it is a Perkins, thanks. Already purchased a few perkins parts for it! It is a Volvo Penta MD2030B/Perkins M30/Shibaura KB 103-10 (or ISM?)

If a fuel pump is on the list soon that's where I'll be looking but that may be getting outside of my ability to change out but i'll have a go at anything

[Compass790]

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

I am no diesel mechanic but the cracking of the injector feed nuts which instantly stop the knock in that cylinder seem proof enough that its a fuel knock. Could I be wrong?

Well the copper bits were the old copper gaskets that has basically disintegrated and fell down when I removed the injectors. They were not in the cylinder but in the bottom of the recess the injectors screw down into.

No valve clearances or timing yet as we are out on our way windward to Grenada on an insurance time limit. Just got to the BVI and have 11 days for Grenada so no time for sitting around with the valve cover off. Compression is definitely something I want to do soon on both my engines but again don't have the ability on board. Once in Grenada I will look around for someone to perform this or just buy the gauge myself

Beware I'm not a diesel mechanic either but a tinkerer,
Your knocking almost sounds like big end play. I suspect, but cannot say for sure, that cutting off the fuel supply by cracking injector pipe nut would lessen the big end knock.
I just suggested the v/v clearances & compression check to rule those out before you start on the injection pump as no doubt it will be a small fortune. jimbunyard clearly knows more about your engine than I do so take his advice first

[Compass790]

Just checked up in Yanmar workshop manual. The way to check for big end knock is to crack injector pipe nut as you have been doing. If it stops it's not a good sign Also does the knocking get worse under hard acceleration? Also not a good sign for big end bearing. Try putting a bit of tube on cylinder or a long screwdriver & putting to your ear when engine is running.

[nomadsailing]

Originally Posted by Compass790

Just checked up in Yanmar workshop manual. The way to check for big end knock is to crack injector pipe nut as you have been doing. If it stops it's not a good sign Also does the knocking get worse under hard acceleration? Also not a good sign for big end bearing. Try putting a bit of tube on cylinder or a long screwdriver & putting to your ear when engine is running.

Interesting the Yanmar manual says that. The Volvo ones don't really go into that type of trouble shooting detail.

I have been using Calders Marine Diesel Engines Book. I'll attach the photos of the pages on knocks (hopefully readable quality). Seemed to me fairly clear it was a fuel knock but now with the work I've done and its persistence might be time to look beyond the fuel knock.

We just finished out 450nm passage from BVI to Grenada for the season so at least I won't be relying on it for long passages for a while! Time for a beer

[jimbunyard]

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

Yes aware it is a Perkins, thanks. Already purchased a few perkins parts for it! It is a Volvo Penta MD2030B/Perkins M30/Shibaura KB 103-10 (or ISM?)

If a fuel pump is on the list soon that's where I'll be looking but that may be getting outside of my ability to change out but i'll have a go at anything

ISM- Shibaura, same company.

Changing the fuel pump is not much more difficult than changing the injectors, if it comes to that...

I have a couple of MD2020s, both are pretty 'knocky', especially before they warm up. If there is a significant difference in the sound of your two, it may of may not indicate a problem, but caution is rarely a bad thing...

When you crack the injector line, it unloads the rod bearing; there should be an attendant miss when you do so, if the bearing is loose, the unloaded big end will stop knocking.

If you have an oil pressure gauge, low pressure, less than 15 psi at idle, could be an indication of bad rod or main bearings, either of which can cause lower end knocking. If you don't have a gauge, one can be had for a few dollars at a parts store, and can be temporarily installed, on my engine there is a pressure point on the head right at the front.

If you can mount one permanently, even better, as they are very good for monitoring the health of your engine.

Though it is better to have oil tested on a regular basis, you can have it done as a one-off thing, and the lab can tell if there are abnormal amounts of bearing material in the oil, which could indicate a bearing problem.

There are many labs, here's one who does it by mail for 28.00 US.

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/prod...5aq4tpua4))%2f

[Compass790]

+1 vote for Jimbunyard post #23 suggestions
Thanks for posting pics of Calders book, managed to read them. I'd probably believe that over Yanmar manual but guess it's a judgement call.
Hope you solve the problem & post results.
Beer is good :-)

[davidcepi]

Originally Posted by nomadsailing

Yeah at first from reading some forums I was afraid I had that style and watched some videos with the specialised tools for pulling the copper sleeves. But this engine isn't like that.

I got the new parts today and put them in... sadly it did not fix the knock in cylinders 1 and 2

Though at least I have some confidence in the right parts existing now so better then nothing. Pics attached show the parts. It is a hard spacer then a small cup of lighter material, I thought copper but I guess steel. Then just 2 gaskets. Pictures attached.

Where to now for the fuel knock? Injector pump?

Cheers

Hi.

I am trying to pull out the olld heat shields and washers, but i cant find a way to do it. Which special tools do k need? I am also trying to get thoae part numbers, the same parts you ordered. Could you please help, i am stuck with the boat.

Thanks.

[trimaranfanatic]

Likely this is a dead thread....but here goes maybe some relevant info.

Just had a similar problem with my md 2030 sb side of our cat. roughly 3650 hours. Head eventually came off, sent to shop where it was rebuilt. In process, three conical insert for the precombustion chambers were pulled out by shop, and returned to me along with rebuilt head.

As far as I can tell the op could see straight into the cylinder which suggests that the conical insert which serves to direct the injected fuel into a dispersion for even combustion in cylinder had been removed. I believe that these parts may not be replaceable except by factory based on the reading I have done?

Question I have for any expert out there is: can I just remove them and run without as a temporizing measure until I can get a new head? Obviously the big risk is that part of the other inserts may corrode and fall apart and then make their way into the cylinder and destroy the engine.

Any opinions out there?

[Midnight Son]

Those are the injector cups, they separate the water jacket from the injector, so there will be a gap. Didn't the shop install new cups?
Best wishes

[Dalestr]

The May 2020 issues of Practical Boat Owner magazine has relevant article; VP MD2030 missing precombustion chamber on just rear cylinder. Can see this online. Having cylinders being injected as though indirect injection but without the damping effect of the precombustion chambers would produce the banging described. Timing and spray patterns differ for direct injection, and compression ratio too.
In the article they replaced the cylinder head with new Perkins one… Maybe a specialized task replacing these but I don’t know.