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Old 25-05-2020, 11:46   #1
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Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

I noticed today that my Velvet transmission is in reverse gear when the boat is moving forward and vice versa. The Velvet manual says be sure not to have the gear selector in reverse while boat is moving forward. The transmission is connected to a Walter V-drive. The Velvet 71C (my model) has a 1 to 1 ratio forward and reverse. I am not sure if there is a difference in forward or reverse. How would I change it anyways? The boat goes backwards when the gear selector on the transmission is in forward. Is this standard when coupled to a V-drive?
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:19   #2
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

REVERSE THE SHIFT CABLES!!! Bob
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:22   #3
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Can't address all of your questions but can add one comment. I have the same setup. BW Velvetdrive 1:1 to a Walter V-drive. PO of the boat had a leak he left for years that seriously rusted the case of the BW so I picked up a used one I found cheap for a spare. Looking at the bell housing side of the BW I found a place to switch directions of the transmission, essentially making forward reverse and reverse forward. I assume for this exact situation. Maybe yours has been switched internally so isn't spinning the wrong way.

Interested to hear if any BW experts chime in with a comment.
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Old 25-05-2020, 12:25   #4
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by roberttigar View Post
REVERSE THE SHIFT CABLES!!! Bob
I think he is saying the shift lever on the transmission itself is reversed, not the shift lever at the helm. So at the helm the shifter works as it should but on the transmission it is in reverse when the boat is going forward.
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Old 25-05-2020, 17:42   #5
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

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Can't address all of your questions but can add one comment. I have the same setup. BW Velvetdrive 1:1 to a Walter V-drive. PO of the boat had a leak he left for years that seriously rusted the case of the BW so I picked up a used one I found cheap for a spare. Looking at the bell housing side of the BW I found a place to switch directions of the transmission, essentially making forward reverse and reverse forward. I assume for this exact situation. Maybe yours has been switched internally so isn't spinning the wrong way.



Interested to hear if any BW experts chime in with a comment.


Hi Skipmac. Those arrows on the front of your Borg Warner are on the hydraulic pump and are only to match the gearbox to an opposite rotation engine, not to change the output shaft direction of rotation.
The OP’s concern is very well founded as the velvetdrive clutch pack for forward is very strong with a number of discs and the reverse clutch is way less robust.... it needs to be mentioned that BW made both CW and CCW Rotation transmissions for twin screw installation so it’s possible that the rotation is correct.
OP....,has the propeller been changed recently?
Pete.
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Old 25-05-2020, 17:54   #6
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

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Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
Hi Skipmac. Those arrows on the front of your Borg Warner are on the hydraulic pump and are only to match the gearbox to an opposite rotation engine, not to change the output shaft direction of rotation.
The OP’s concern is very well founded as the velvetdrive clutch pack for forward is very strong with a number of discs and the reverse clutch is way less robust.... it needs to be mentioned that BW made both CW and CCW Rotation transmissions for twin screw installation so it’s possible that the rotation is correct.
OP....,has the propeller been changed recently?
Pete.
Thank you! I have been wondering about this for a while.

A mechanic had told me once that the BW was only one way but he did not know what the arrow on the face meant.

He did also tell me the same thing about the clutches but I somewhat discounted his advise since on this he could not explain the other.
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Old 25-05-2020, 19:19   #7
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Skipperpete has it correct:
- the arrows on the front casting of the BW 71c are to index the pump rotation to the engine rotation....they have nothing to do with output shaft rotation
- running the transmission with the shift lever in the reverse position while the boat is traveling forward risks clutch pack damage. The “forward” clutch pack is much more robust than the reverse pack, and should be used for forward travel.
- Certain ratio 71 series transmissions have output shaft rotation opposite to the engine rotation, but 1:1 ratio transmissions always rotate the same as the engine when the shift lever is in the “forward” position.


That leaves you with two options:
- the propeller hand has been changed, or was never correct to begin with
- the Walters V drive has been changed or was never correct to begin with

Close coupled and remote Walters V drives are available with or without an idler gear in the output gear train, so opposite rotation can be achieved by using different V drives. This was very convenient for boat builders making twin engine power boats years ago. They needed only stock one type of engine/ transmission package and could get opposite rotation with the v-drive. Today most close coupled V drives rotate either direction with full power and equal ratios.
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Old 25-05-2020, 23:00   #8
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperpete View Post
Hi Skipmac. Those arrows on the front of your Borg Warner are on the hydraulic pump and are only to match the gearbox to an opposite rotation engine, not to change the output shaft direction of rotation.
The OP’s concern is very well founded as the velvetdrive clutch pack for forward is very strong with a number of discs and the reverse clutch is way less robust.... it needs to be mentioned that BW made both CW and CCW Rotation transmissions for twin screw installation so it’s possible that the rotation is correct.
OP....,has the propeller been changed recently?
Pete.
Thanks for the reply. The prop is a Gori folding prop. I took it off a couple of months ago and serviced it and re-installed it.
I am confused. If the transmission is shifted in reverse as indicated by the R on the housing yet goes forward in the water is this the engine output turning the opposite direction then what the transmission was designed for? I have a marinized Isuzu engine. I had a marine diesel mechanic survey the boat before purchasing her and this did not come up. This is my first V-drive boat so I did not notice it.
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Old 26-05-2020, 05:20   #9
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

We have a Westerbeke 71C in our Kaufman 47. It is LH drive. Propwalk to Starboard in reverse. As for the "engine" I have yet to determine exactly from where the block comes from. At one time, I thought it was Mitsubishi, but I am not confident.
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Old 26-05-2020, 12:09   #10
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Some of the V drives have a chain drive inside. I think they were used for cw and ccw props but I am not sure.
I have two 721c v drives here, with 1:2,5 reduction but I am not sure how much diesel power they can handle
They are brand-new and I want to sell, but cannot give people the right info
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Old 27-05-2020, 16:30   #11
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

So it looks as if the propeller was purchased with the wrong handed direction. It is a left hand spinning prop. I am wondering if my V-drive can be reversed some way? It is a Walter RV-10D. It may be cheaper than hulling out the boat and buying a new Gori folding prop which is not cheap.
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Old 27-05-2020, 18:05   #12
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Call Walter Gears. Great people. I replaced my 10D two years ago. You will need the serial number. With that they will know everything necessary and can advise you on fwd/rev usage. We also have the Velvet drive. My new 10D was about 2.5K as I recall. I used/rebuilt Maxprop for our Kaufman. 18" three blade was about 2300. Feel free to PM me for details.
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Old 27-05-2020, 18:31   #13
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

I usually only contribute engineering comments on machinery where I have actual hands on experience so this is a departure from the rule because I’ve never worked on a Walter Vee drive....... however, I just read the manual and discovered that it is possible to reverse the rotation of the Walter RV10 and larger in the RV range which raises a few questions.
The BW 71C direct drive can only be ahead in the ahead lever position but the Walter in its basic configuration reverses that rotation since it has only 2 gears..... UNLESS it has the third gear idler option installed. The option was provided to allow counter rotating propellers in twin screw boats so there is a chance that at some point the Walter was changed and accidentally got the 3 gear addition.
The simplest answer however is that ..... yep, it’s the wrong rotation prop. Click image for larger version

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Old 29-05-2020, 09:48   #14
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Re: Velvet transmission to Walter V-drive

Well the V-drive is to small to add the 3rd gear to reverse the rotation. Looks like a new prop or changing the blades out to right hand ones are the options. The blades are about 65% the cost of a new complete prop. I just rebuilt the prop so it is like brand new. Thanks again everyone for your input.
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