Upcoming Survey: Westerbeke 40 Repair or Replace?

[vabchbrewer]

Hi everyone,
I'm a newbie to this forum and am in the process of buying a Pearson 40. I'm waiting on a survey and sea trial of a 1980 Pearson 40' that I hope to buy. It is currently on the hard so we couldn't run the engine. As far as I know, it has the original Westerbeke 40-37hp diesel and I am told that it runs.

Looking online, I am concerned about parts availability and high pricing if you can find them. Is repowering with another brand feasible, and at what price range? Same for the V-drive.

Thoughts and advice would be greatly appreciated!

[robert sailor]

It’s questionable whether these engines are financially feasible to overhaul unless your labor was free. Think if I was in your position while the engine was still running….I’d shop around for a used one with low hours. I think you’d come out ahead.

[roryboy]

The Pearson 40 is a really nice boat.

The drive system may be the remote vee type and if it needs to be replaced it will have some major components to address. Is the walter vee drive in good condition? Is the drive shaft in good condition? Is the clutch on the engine in good condition and is it an old model that may be hard to find parts and real expensive to rebuild? Or can it be rebuilt at all? Does the engine suit your purpose? Do you need reliability to head off to far away places with minimal concern?

A drive system like is used in a Pearson 40 needs to have a very good inspection performed by a serious marine mechanic who can tell you the options that are available to you now and in the future should something start to go wrong with the system.

[tkeithlu]

QUOTE "Is repowering with another brand feasible,"

Avoid thinking in that direction. Changing to a different engine can be a nightmare. Think rebuild or replace in kind if necessary. If you try to change, you find that the new engine doesn't fit, the seacocks are in the wrong places, ditto hoses, cables, electrical, engine mounts, space to the prop shaft - do you get the picture?

Good luck with it.

[sailingunity]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

QUOTE "Is repowering with another brand feasible,"

Avoid thinking in that direction. Changing to a different engine can be a nightmare. Think rebuild or replace in kind if necessary. If you try to change, you find that the new engine doesn't fit, the seacocks are in the wrong places, ditto hoses, cables, electrical, engine mounts, space to the prop shaft - do you get the picture?

Good luck with it.

This statement is true. We started to go down the path of buying new last year, but instead decided we would rebuild once we found out we could do it for a small fraction of the price and work. My engine is a Westerbeke W80, but it is based on the British Leyland 4/98 which is a common tractor engine, I can get all the parts to rebuild it for about $500, including new cylinder sleeves.

In our case, it starts and runs fine. Compression is a bit low in 2 of the cylinders, which I think is causing some excess vibration, but the main reason to pull it is that we have a leaking coolant drain that needs to be drilled and re-tapped and is inaccessible in the boat.

[Captain Graham]

I had a simular issue when I bought my Watkins 27 with a Westerbeke 20BTwo engine.
The motor ran poorly because of lack of use.
The PO did not take the boat out much and only ran the engine for 15 mins each time.
I hired a local marine diesel mechanic to overhaul the engine.
It cost $3000 and took 3 months.
The 3 months was mostly because of covid and he was very busy.

I like the westerbeke engine because it has a self priming fuel system.
When you change a fuel filter (racor) you introduce air into the fuel lines.
Most diesel engines you have to bleed the fuel lines and get the air out manually.
The westerbeke has an electric fuel pump that turns on when the glow plugs are turned on.
The fuel pump will circulate fuel thru the system and get rid of the air.

I get my parts from
TMS Sailing, Marine Diesel Engine Parts and Boating Supplies from Toad Marine Supply

[Mickeyrouse]

I went through the “repair-replace” dilemma last year with another series Westerbeke. The shop cost at a diesel shop that wasn’t “marine” was $2700 to replace all gaskets, bearings, rings, and a valve job. Quotes from” marine” shops were at least two times, plus a 3 month lead time, or they just wouldn’t quote until the engine was in their shop. A suitably-sized Yanmar was $16,000, also with a 3 month lead time. This is in the Houston market. I handled removal and installation, and the engine quotes were without installation.
Our previous engine was a Westerbeke 40. Westerbeke has used various designations on what I understand is the same basic block. In addition to the “40” name, they have also referred to it as “99”, and “4-107”. All of these are marinized versions of a Perkins 107 engine. Variations involved the marine gear attached, which could be a Warner, Paragon, and possibly VZ-Hurth. There may have been other gear options.
I always felt that the basic block lent itself to extreme longevity. The cylinder liners and valve seats are removable, which are two of the most wear-prone parts on an engine, not excluding the crankshaft. Though Perkins introduced the engine in the early 60’s, hundreds of thousands were built and distributed world-wide for use in anything a 40 horse diesel would be suitable for: stationary uses like pumps and compressors, construction equipment- even marine propulsion! Parts are generally available today if sourced as Perkins. Westerbeke, on the other hand, seems to be making efforts to make it difficult to buy parts- I think there may be only a couple “ stocking distributors” for Westerbeke, and they seem to be back-ordered or just out of stock on anything I need.
I would encourage re-building the Westerbeke, but I would also encourage getting the Perkins parts manual for the engine and getting parts sources lined up. Mack Boring and Mid-Atlantic Diesel are two that are on the East Coast. Diesel Parts Direct in Baton Rouge is also a source. I am sure there are others. It will be a LOT cheaper. Besides things like engine mounts, cooling water, fuel lines, exhaust, controls, etc. are already in place for that engine. A conversion to a different engine is a big job. It will be lengthy and expensive.
I see no advantage in a specialized marine engine shop, unless they have a service dock and capable crane. What makes a diesel “ marine” is the cooling system and gear. Once its out of the boat, it’s just an engine. Almost all marine propulsion diesels ever installed are marinized versions of general purpose engines.
I feel your pain. Good luck with what ever you decide.

[kenbo]

I vote to rebuild if necessary your Perkins 4-107. Most engine parts are available at a reasonable cost from Parts4engines. Bowman makes heat exchanger/exhaust manifolds for the Perkins 107/108. And Walter V drive is still in business and supporting its products.

That's a very simple tractor engine that any competent machine shop can rebuild. No need to pay marine prices. If you were pricing parts from Westerbeke you were most likely turned off. There are many alternatives.

[Captain Graham]

I should add that diesel engines are very reliable if you do the following
1. Change the oil at the end of the season
2. Keep the fuel clean.
I fill a portable fuel can then use a funnel with built in filter I pour the fuel into my fuel tank.
Like most people I also have 2 fuel filters for the fuel.
One that is on the engine and a much bigger one on the fuel line going to the engine.
The bigger one is a racor
3. Check the anti freeze (coolant) and replace if needed.
4. Check the zincs and replace if needed.
5. MOST IMORTANTLY run the engine under load (in gear) for 1 hour every once in a while to burn out the carbon.


Funnel with built in filter
https://www.acehardware.com/departme...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Racor Fuel Filter
https://www.amazon.com/Racor-Micron-...s%2C372&sr=8-5

[Lepke]

I believe the Westerbeke 40 is a Perkins 4107 block. If so, a rebuild kit is about $500. That includes all necessary block internal parts and gaskets. The head should go to a rebuilder.

Before going too far down the rebuild path, have a Perkins mechanic do a run and compression test. It doesn't have to be perfect to be a reliable engine.
The engine was also used in tractors and other farm and industrial equipment. If you're in a rural area, a farm supply may have parts at much less than a marine dealer. Otherwise I get my Perkins parts from www.parts4engines.com

[roryboy]

The idea that you cannot replace a 4.107 with a new diesel engine is crazy talk. People do this all the time. You need to speak with a professional mechanic about that engine and drive system before you buy the boat. An engine that old is always going to have eccentricities. If you want to live with them, fine. if you want long term operation with few problems, then you need to speak with a mechanic. Not a surveyor. The operation of that engine, trans and vee drive is a huge part of the value of the boat. Make sure you get good advice.

[SailingHarmonie]

I do take issue with the idea that a repower would be automatically be a “nightmare”. It can be expensive, and requires careful thought on selection of the replacement engine, but done well, it can be as simple as rerouting a few hoses and (maybe) relocating engine mounts. Certainly if done badly it can be a nightmare—like a bad rebuild!

Most problematic repowers I have seen were people “upgrading” to a bigger engine which left them with all kinds of problems fitting things.

That said, rebuilding a Perkins 107 is also entirely feasible.

For older engines that DO have internal parts available, the rebuild vs repower decision is a difficult and complex one. Any body here who thinks they can give you the guaranteed correct answer for such a choice in your specific case lis just wrong.

For those with older engines for which internal parts are NOT available, the decision has been made for you.

[kenbo]

Sometimes it's not the engine but the marinization parts that are the problem. But for the Perkins 4-107 that is not an issue at all. Every single part of that drivetrain is available and serviceable.

The only 2 issues that would change my mind about a rebuild would be a cracked block or a damaged beyond repair crankshaft. Both would change the economics in favor of a repower.

Because it's a v-drive, IMO, I'd do all I could to rebuild if necessary. And as Lepke said, it's old but may be fine. Just check it out thoroughly.

[Mickeyrouse]

Of course you can replace a Westerbeke 4-107 with something else- I’ve done it. But it ain’t cheap. When first considering that option some years back, I got a quote from an extremely well-known New England boat yard that I had a relationship with: the conversion to another engine was more than four times the cost of the engine itself. The work would have been world-class. But so was the cost.
Yes, the condition of the engine is a large factor in the re-sale value of any boat. But I’ve never seen the value of a boat increase dollar-for-dollar with the addition of a new engine. I’ve been through that too.

[mabowers]

What model V-drive transmission ?