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Old 14-05-2021, 09:51   #46
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I was about to make the same comment. I've got a M-12, very different engine but my understanding is Catalina used the same electric pump on a lot of installations.

Getting to the point I was doing some reading before servicing my engine a couple of weeks ago and thought "what the Hell, it can't hurt to check." I was appalled at the mess on that screen.

The fun part is I'd swapped the fuel filter last year, decanted the fuel out of the filter for a look see, looked good, went on with life. Looked at the screen this year and found a very ugly mess, but again the fuel in the filter looked just fine.

Many boats were incorrectly plumbed from the factory.


tank>>pump>>Racor primary


should be


tank>>primary>>pump


Standard mistake. You don't want the teeny pump filter to be the first in line.
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Old 14-05-2021, 13:58   #47
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

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Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Many boats were incorrectly plumbed from the factory . . . Standard mistake. You don't want the teeny pump filter to be the first in line.
I was struggling to follow your logic because in my opinion the device in the fuel pump is a fine screen, not a filter. Then I got back into the document on Catalina Direct and found it titled as "The Unknown Filter" but has a photo of it labeled as a fine screen.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/the-unknown-filter/

The article also states that the round vertical fuel pump wasn't widely used on the M-25XPB so we may be beating a dead horse.

That aside I think we can agree that it might behoove smosh to see if his electric pump looks like the one in the article, and check the screen if it is one of those pumps. Pretty easy to do and can obviously cause problems if neglected.

My M-12 was and continues to run reliably, despite having this mess on the screen.
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Old 14-05-2021, 14:29   #48
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTS View Post
I was struggling to follow your logic because in my opinion the device in the fuel pump is a fine screen, not a filter. Then I got back into the document on Catalina Direct and found it titled as "The Unknown Filter" but has a photo of it labeled as a fine screen.

https://www.catalinadirect.com/the-unknown-filter/

The article also states that the round vertical fuel pump wasn't widely used on the M-25XPB so we may be beating a dead horse.

That aside I think we can agree that it might behoove smosh to see if his electric pump looks like the one in the article, and check the screen if it is one of those pumps. Pretty easy to do and can obviously cause problems if neglected.

My M-12 was and continues to run reliably, despite having this mess on the screen.

I couldn't get out there today (now she's on my mooring) but will head out tomorrow. Checking the filter is on the agenda.

I haven't gotten a diesel service return call from the message I left with the answering service, nor from a message left on a cell phone. Uh-oh...
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Old 15-05-2021, 15:24   #49
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

By all means check your screen filter smosh but doubt it's your problem.
You are getting plenty of fuel at the injection pump if it is spurting at the pumps bleed screw. It sounds like the problem lies within the injector pump or in the throttle/governor controls. If you have a workshop manual or you are confident to look at the throttle & governor spring connections as per the vid Sinnerman posted for you you should concentrate on that.
I doubt it's seized plungers as its not likely all three would fail at once. You are getting virtually nothing nothing out of the high pressure side of the pump so it's most likely either the fuel rack is not working or there is a blockage.

If not confident looking at throttle/fuel rack/governor leave it to the mechanic or injection tech should you manage to find one.
Good luck
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Old 15-05-2021, 15:37   #50
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

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Originally Posted by Compass790 View Post
By all means check your screen filter smosh but doubt it's your problem.
You are getting plenty of fuel at the injection pump if it is spurting at the pumps bleed screw. It sounds like the problem lies within the injector pump or in the throttle/governor controls. If you have a workshop manual or you are confident to look at the throttle & governor spring connections as per the vid Sinnerman posted for you you should concentrate on that.
I doubt it's seized plungers as its not likely all three would fail at once. You are getting virtually nothing nothing out of the high pressure side of the pump so it's most likely either the fuel rack is not working or there is a blockage.

If not confident looking at throttle/fuel rack/governor leave it to the mechanic or injection tech should you manage to find one.
Good luck
Thanks - my thoughts on the pump/governor, too. I did not ultimately pull apart the screen/pump. It will be a bigger project..combination of awkward location and really old fuel hose. Good to focus after the secondary filter.

The cable moves the arm of the governor just fine, and it -feels- ok, smooth, not hinky, but can't see inside, obviously. I'll see what I can find for instructions/walk-through above and beyond that video and the parts blowup for how it's supposed to be in there. I do have the Service Manual, and there's good explanation of how the governor should work, but hopefully I'll find something more hands-on.

Hopefully I'll get someone lined up.
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Old 16-05-2021, 09:09   #51
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnerman View Post
I have a Cat 30 with a Universal M25. Same as yours, except your XP engine has slightly larger cylinders/pistons to generate the extra HP.

The boat has an electric fuel pump (like yours) which pulls fuel from the fuel tank through the RACOR main fuel filter and then sends it onward, under pressure to the engine through the engine-mounted (2 micron) filter and on to the injector pump.





Cheers



I believe this was the pump that was not working on my friends boat. His problem wasn't the pump itself but the circuit that sent it power from the switch.
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Old 17-05-2021, 08:44   #52
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

I had the same boat with the same engine and every time I had difficulty starting, I had to bleed the water out of the waterlift muffler. There's a petcock on the aft side of the box. Drain out all the water then warm the glowplugs for 30 seconds or so and she should start.

Good luck
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Old 17-05-2021, 09:29   #53
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

If the problem still exists, look for scored copper washer at the bleed screw and injector pump. I had this problem decades ago, and had to hire a mechanic, who spotted the problem immediately and simply replaced one copper washer.
Good uck!
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:05   #54
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

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Originally Posted by smosh View Post
Oh, and I have the old-style alternator bracket. Ugh. ��

Then it is not an M25XP, it is an M25.



Although I recently read that some very early M25XPs came with the old bracket.


https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/...rnator_bracket


Critical Upgrades http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html


There should also not be any fuel leaking from the knurled knob.
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:13   #55
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

I had a similar problem.
I bleed the fuel by cracking open each injectors on the block, one at a time,
on a cold engine at WOT (wide open throttle).
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:36   #56
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

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Originally Posted by Paradox111 View Post
I had a similar problem.
I bleed the fuel by cracking open each injectors on the block, one at a time,
on a cold engine at WOT (wide open throttle).

What engine do you have?
Do you have an electrical lift pump?
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:40   #57
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

What engine do you have? Universal 5416
Do you have an electrical lift pump? Yes

Bleeding WOT on a cold engine did the job.
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Old 17-05-2021, 10:54   #58
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

In your original description you say you added fuel as a friend suggested you may have run out. I didnít see if you said that was the case or not.
I worked at a plant where the fork lift drivers would frequently run their machines out of fuel. The yard mechanic would cuss and start the bleeding procedure. He discovered or someone told him that a rag soaked in gasoline, not dripping, stuck over the in the intake air filter was all it took to get the engine cranked and the fuel flowing. Dont let the rag get sucked in!
Not much different than a squirt of either but not as explosive or hard on the engine.
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Old 17-05-2021, 13:24   #59
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

I think In Your situation you need a little Easy Start Spray, or brake cleaner, almost any flammable aerosol will do, spray a little in the air intake while cranking. The amount of bleeding you appear to of carried out could also now be a wet cylinder. Diesel needs to be atomised and heated ( Compression) to ignite.
So if you know you have fuel, then the heat or Atomisation is missing.
This is just something to get you back to square 1 and not going to fix it be itself if you have a real issue.
Thing to remember if adding spray - the engine runs on the spray, as well as the fuel so donít over do it.
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Old 17-05-2021, 14:28   #60
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Re: Universal 25XP not starting...bleeding?

just something to add, not sure it is applicable, but, my son in law had someone with an older Bobcat grading his driveway. All of a sudden, it was a runaway diesel. Saw the video, operator jumped off the machine. My son in law, a Mercedes technician, tried shutting it down, but the air intake was behind a shield, and he didn't want to be near the engine block for to long of a time. They stayed back a distance a distance until the engine shut down by itself, 10 minutes later. He checked the oil, and it was about 2-3 quarts above the line on the dip stick. The owner was having fuel problems so he added an electric in line fuel pump. What my son in law thinks happened, is the pump was alway creating pressure in the fuel system, and some how extra fuel leaked into the crankcase. It hit a point where the fuel/oil was being sucked up into the air intake, supplying fuel, it had compression, and the air intake was wide open. The engine was a potential grenade. Bobcat uses Kubota engines. Just wanted to tell the story, and maybe as you keep cranking the engine, you might want to check your oil level from time to time. Can't run far from the engine while on the mooring. Might just have been a 1 in a million event.
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