Turbo diesels aging gracefully?

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Turbo will give you a much lighter and smaller motor that will consume slightly less fuel.
You could potentially end up with a boat that weighs hundreds of lbs less and has a smaller engine compt.

At least on the IP that burned, I would suspect a fuel leak or an oil leak, it did burn though, no arguing that.

Sounds like a good reason to have a lighter weight turbo generator. But I am not fully convinced that the weight savings on a 30-40HP engine would amount to "hundreds of lbs". But even if it is so I still would choose simplicity and ruggedness over weight savings and marginal fuel economy. Now, if the turbos would sip for example at least twice less fuel than comparable power NA engines that would be a persuasive argument. But for me 5-10-15% fuel economy is not such convincing point.

[a64pilot]

Well nobody said 30 to 40HP. I thought turbo motors were usually around 100 HP or more?
Is there a 30 HP Turbo?

[Midnight Son]

A few things:

1. Starting and let the engine come up to a decent temperature (5 minutes minimum). Idle free zones are good for the environment, hazardous to your wallet.
2. After a good run, let the engine cool down at idle for 10 - 15 minutes (one training operation I went with made sure the cool down was a half an hour!!). Shutting down after 3 - 5 minutes of idle with a turbo that has run hard for 4 hours is just saying you want a new turbo no matter what.
3. Every 10 - 20 hours of operation, or there about, check the turbos' oil supply and returns (when ashore, if the feed is a hose, give it a good push, look for cracks, if there is or an odd feeling to the hose when moved, REPLACE IT NOW not i'll get to it). The return in some cases is a pipe with an o-ring at the block/pan fitting. If a little smear of oil is present, REPLACE the o-ring, checking the turbo oil outlet fitting at the same time. Fires on boats, nuf said.
4. Oil and filter change per manufacturers recommended interval, or more often (severe service schedule). Include checking the air filter in this, you will be suprised how much crud ends up in a boat's air filter, depending on the cruising area.

I have owned and am responsible for a few diesels. All of them barring mechanical defect or operator neglect made it to full time +10,000 hours.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Just as an overall statement, usually a turbo or blown engine will not last as long as the same engine that is normally aspirated. The reason is as has been stated, more power out of the same engine usually means more wear, no free lunch. However a turbo is always "engaged", there is no option to disengage it.
Go talk to the owners of the bigger DD's for an opinion. I believe the average for them is the turbo motors last about half the hours of the NA motors.

This is just a general statement, not brand or model specific, it's like saying usually a Diesel lasts longer than a gas motor.

I doubt you can equate Turbo and blown, in the same category? Other than both force air, and yes naturally aspirated engines last longer, develop less HP and run slower. It depends on what you want, squeezing the max. HP or running forever.

[Symphony]

in my youth, a Blown engine was supercharged, as opposed to a Turbo, which runs on exhaust gasses. Superchargers will keep you busy with repairs. Look and sound great too. can't imagine one on a boat.

I think the turbo yanmar and volvo engines are there because they allow a smaller lighter engine, giving more room for accommodations that help sell the boat.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Turbo will give you a much lighter and smaller motor that will consume slightly less fuel.
You could potentially end up with a boat that weighs hundreds of lbs less and has a smaller engine compt.

At least on the IP that burned, I would suspect a fuel leak or an oil leak, it did burn though, no arguing that.

regarding sandpiper, i know the boat.
when it has been specified by the inspection and reported, why , then do folks have this infernal NEED to change the situation??
the FACTS of sandpiper are the turbo heated fiberglass over ignition temps.
oops. this is per owners during experience. the yacht was a yacht--impeccable and in perfect condition, not a derelict run by ignorants on the edge.
turbos DO need a lot of air to function. imagine had their impeccable island packet 44 been in mid OCEAN rather than a 90 mile wide gulf.......oops.
i believe that harry hazzard's fg ignition was also due to fg igniting from overheated turbo, but i am not certain on that one. .
i see no ability for turbos in sleek performance cruisers to receive the massive amounts of air needed for proper function. yes the turbo DO get that hot while in use. i have seen and watched fires begin in racing cars also due to ignition of fg by turbo not able top breathe appropriately.
turbos get HOT and glow orange. that means F ing HOT.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Symphony

in my youth, a Blown engine was supercharged, as opposed to a Turbo, which runs on exhaust gasses. Superchargers will keep you busy with repairs. Look and sound great too. can't imagine one on a boat.

I think the turbo yanmar and volvo engines are there because they allow a smaller lighter engine, giving more room for accommodations that help sell the boat.

In your youth? The supercharger you reference to probably came from a GM marine or truck engine and stuck on an auto gas engine with a belt dive.

[Symphony]

Originally Posted by Cadence

In your youth? The supercharger you reference to probably came from a GM marine or truck engine and stuck on an auto gas engine with a belt dive.

ha. Probably you're right.
It was a blown Ford small block V8 in a yellow Pantera. I owned it for only 2 years as there were few places to really drive it in style in LA County. Made some runs through the Mojave to Barstow to Vegas that are still in my memory.

[a64pilot]

Turbo and supercharger of course force air into the intake manifold above atmospheric pressure.
Difference is Superchargers run off of the crankshaft usually and therefore rob some of the power, to make more.
But underway, under boost, there is no appreciable difference as far as engine wear and longevity is concerned.
As far as Superchargers on boats, all Mercury Verado's are Supercharged and I believe probably the most prolific engine ever put on boats, the two stroke Detroit Diesel are all Supercharged. I believe they have to be to force air through the engine, they are I believe an unusual two stroke design.

[SailRedemption]

A turbo shouldn't overheat to red hot unless there is an exhaust blockage or oil isn't cooling it properly. In which case a NA engine will suffer from overheating as well from both of those. I don't know the story of the Sandpiper, so I am not commenting on it.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Symphony

ha. Probably you're right.
It was a blown Ford small block V8 in a yellow Pantera. I owned it for only 2 years as there were few places to really drive it in style in LA County. Made some runs through the Mojave to Barstow to Vegas that are still in my memory.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Midnight Son

you will be suprised how much crud ends up in a boat's air filter, depending on the cruising area.

Uh-Oh. No air filters on my Westerbeke engine or genset (both NA). Never had them, and don't think they are even spec'd for them. All I have are heavy plastic covers over the intakes which I think may be mainly for noise reduction. Should I consider trying to retrofit air filters? A K&N that clamps over the intake ports on the covers might be easiest. On the other hand, I'm generally not inclined to go with anything other than stock on the boat motors. Maybe no air filters by design?

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Turbo and supercharger of course force air into the intake manifold above atmospheric pressure.
Difference is Superchargers run off of the crankshaft usually and therefore rob some of the power, to make more.
But underway, under boost, there is no appreciable difference as far as engine wear and longevity is concerned.
As far as Superchargers on boats, all Mercury Verado's are Supercharged and I believe probably the most prolific engine ever put on boats, the two stroke Detroit Diesel are all Supercharged. I believe they have to be to force air through the engine, they are I believe an unusual two stroke design.

The blown Detroit's were well ahead of there time. I believe the 671's that were actually a Grey design here developed for WW II. A great many are still running except for the aluminum V 671's. I believe the same blower was used on the 871s and the 853's. A big hunk of reliable iron but not for most sail boats. Great for a displacement trawler.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by jamhass

Our 2003T has 4700+ hours on the original turbo. Still running just fine. The base engine seems fine, its the bits Volvo adds to marinize it that are weak, mainly the cooling system. Heat exchanger and oil cooler are made of Al and Cu and do not last. I've reconfigured mine with aftermarket HX and OC in CuNi at a fraction of the cost of Volvo bits, and it has been great.

By the way, the turbo itself is not actually volvo and a good turbo shop can replace it if needed. Not sure the actual mfg and model, but I know who to call...

I'd love to know who you call to replace one of these turbos without spending $3,000 on the Volvo part.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Well nobody said 30 to 40HP. I thought turbo motors were usually around 100 HP or more?
Is there a 30 HP Turbo?

The Volvo 2003 is 28hp without the turbo & 43hp with. Even today it's probably the smallest package for a 40+hp diesel around. I've been talking with the people at Beta Marine & they tell me that it's actually a rebranded Kanzaki diesel which they consider to be of below average quality.