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Ziggy · 30-03-2013, 18:27

Both Yanmar and Beta make fine engines. I repowered with a Yanmar 5 years ago and I'm very happy with it (so far, at least!). The Volvos have a reputation for being less reliable, but maybe that's a myth. You should also consider a few other factors:

1) Are any of these engines drop in compatible with your engine bed? Or would you need to modify the engine bed?
2) Are the exhaust, fuel, water, electrical connections on the same side as your current engine?
3) Do you have dealers and factory certified mechanics for these engines nearby?

**skipmac** · 30-03-2013, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Jim, Skipmac, Mickey Rouse

Very good points and I agree with you all. Mickey explained well, however Beta also does not manufacture engines but at least they provide fair prices and good support.
I had a Westerbeke before and avoided to buy parts from them at all costs. My current boat came with a Westerbeke and I traced the Mitsubishi block and got the manual to order the (Mitsubishi tractor) parts when I need it. The engine has only 900 hours, so it’s a keeper – don’t be sorry.
Thanks for your comments.

Well, like Dave pointed out, very few marine engine companies build their own blocks, just buy the block and add the heat exchanges, pumps, manifolds, etc. And to be fair I cannot complain about the Westerbeke in my current boat. It has about 2000 hours on it, almost 30 years old, and it runs like a top; no smoking, cranks immediately and never misses a beat. Of course it is 30 year old technology and it's loud and shakes the whole boat but with any luck at all it will still be running when I swallow the anchor.

My only complaint is what Westerbeke charges for the parts. I feel so used every time I buy anything from them. So anybody know what block is used to build a 1984 Westerbeke W58?

mbianka · 30-03-2013, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pipeline

with a new three cylinder Yanmar or Volvo Penta, diesel. I'm a sailor first, not terrific with engines, though I know how to keep them running. Which company would you choose and why? I like both products. Maybe you knowledgeable folks out there have a couple of good ideas. I have owned a VP previously, also.

Thx, in advance.

Mike

Since you are a sailor first have you given any thought to converting to electric propulsion? I converted from diesel five years ago and never looked back. Maintenance and parts cost have gone way down since I did.

Though before I decided to go to electric propulsion I was very close to putting in a BETA Marine diesel for many of the reasons already mentioned. Especially ease of maintenance.

maine50 · 30-03-2013, 20:34

Another vote for Beta. Installed Beta 38 myself, 2 years ago. They will work with you to try to adapt the their mount mount spacing so you do not have to modify your engine beds. I needed another inch width and they used 1/2 inch spacer blocks on both sides. They also publish a list of common consumables with generic part numbers- filters, belta, impellers etc. so you can either order from them or go to autoparts store.. Tim- Tartan 41/43- Northstar.

Target9000 · 30-03-2013, 20:36

Just chiming in... Another very satisfied Beta customer. Beta 38 here as well. Runs like a champ.

cpa · 30-03-2013, 21:12

My newly installed Beta 60 has just four hours on it. I am very satisfied with my experience. The company was a pleasure to deal with and installation support was beyond top notch . A+

FlyingCloud1937 · 30-03-2013, 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pipeline

with a new three cylinder Yanmar or Volvo Penta, diesel. I'm a sailor first, not terrific with engines, though I know how to keep them running. Which company would you choose and why? I like both products. Maybe you knowledgeable folks out there have a couple of good ideas. I have owned a VP previously, also.

Thx, in advance.

Mike

I would go with the Volvo, because it's actually a Perkins/Caterpillar/Shiburia engine, they have produced literally millions of the engines over the past 20 years.

They are hands down the best diesel in their class, Yanmar started knocking em off because they were in such great demand. The difference between the 2, is in the block/crank shaft engineering.

Volvo is going to be more expensive, but in the time you own it, they will be cheaper then a Yanmar.

Lloyd

**Jim Cate** · 30-03-2013, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

They are hands down the best diesel in their class, Yanmar started knocking em off because they were in such great demand. The difference between the 2, is in the block/crank shaft engineering.

Lloyd

G'Day Lloyd -- I wonder if you could support that statement about engineering with some greater detail. That is, what are the better features of design in the Volvo (or Catepillar or whatever it really is) crank and block, and why are they so important?

One does not usually hear of yacht engines suffering from defects in those areas, but more often in the fuel system (injectors/pumps) or add-on marinizing bits, so I am left wondering why these putative superiorities are of concern to us?

Thanks

Jim

FlyingCloud1937 · 31-03-2013, 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Lloyd -- I wonder if you could support that statement about engineering with some greater detail. That is, what are the better features of design in the Volvo (or Catepillar or whatever it really is) crank and block, and why are they so important?

One does not usually hear of yacht engines suffering from defects in those areas, but more often in the fuel system (injectors/pumps) or add-on marinizing bits, so I am left wondering why these putative superiorities are of concern to us?

Thanks

Jim

Hi Jim,

It's quiet simple. We are taking stability. The Shib..1st, then Perk...2nd, and Cat..3rd, marinized by Volvo.

So Shiburia a Japenese tractor company began the deal. Tractors need to work. Some Trac's... are driven by driveline, some are by belt.

All are from the crank..shaft.

So Shi/Perkins/Cat/Volovo have benefited.

They are the only engine in it's class that can drive a side load, and produce an NM load spiragraph.

Yanmar, Kuboata, and clones say no to any side loads, and don't/won't produce a spiragraph.

Any reciprocating engine, depends and the mono...block and crankshaft design, to function day in, and day out.

So any mono...block designed to deliver a side load, can and will deliver.

Lloyd

FlyingCloud1937 · 31-03-2013, 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

G'Day Lloyd -- I wonder if you could support that statement about engineering with some greater detail. That is, what are the better features of design in the Volvo (or Catepillar or whatever it really is) crank and block, and why are they so important?

One does not usually hear of yacht engines suffering from defects in those areas, but more often in the fuel system (injectors/pumps) or add-on marinizing bits, so I am left wondering why these putative superiorities are of concern to us?

Thanks

Jim

The fuel injection is the bosh casset type, which all use. It's the next best thing compared to. Injector Rail, but minus the the electronic control of fuel timing.

Volvo has about as long a history as the original Perkins Diesels, in marinizing. Which means nothing except, they don't want call backs.

Yanmar/Kubota are willing to sell you a new prime mover every year.

And clones be dammed.

Lloyd

**Jim Cate** · 31-03-2013, 01:07

Well, Lloyd, thanks for trying to explain things to me. I am not completely sure what some of your points were, but it seems that being able to sustain side loads on the crank is important in your eyes. And I can understand this if one wants to drive lots of ancillary loads from your main engine, but most of us with yachts only have minor side loads. Things like an alternator, possibly a refrigeration compressor or even an engine driven crash pump, and most marine diesels will sustain these without harm. Seems quite different from tractor usage to me!

At any rate, our personal and associative experience with Kubotas have been quite positive. Ours is over 20 years of age, over 3K hours, no faults so far, and they have not attempted to sell me a new one yet.

Perhaps the Volvo you tout would be even better... I'm surely not competent to say, but the Kubota based engines do have a pretty good track record in the yachting world.

Cheers,

Jim

seandepagnier · 31-03-2013, 01:11

Go electric if you want zero maintenance and something that will always run after sitting for a long time.

FlyingCloud1937 · 31-03-2013, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, Lloyd, thanks for trying to explain things to me. I am not completely sure what some of your points were, but it seems that being able to sustain side loads on the crank is important in your eyes. And I can understand this if one wants to drive lots of ancillary loads from your main engine, but most of us with yachts only have minor side loads. Things like an alternator, possibly a refrigeration compressor or even an engine driven crash pump, and most marine diesels will sustain these without harm. Seems quite different from tractor usage to me!

At any rate, our personal and associative experience with Kubotas have been quite positive. Ours is over 20 years of age, over 3K hours, no faults so far, and they have not attempted to sell me a new one yet.

Perhaps the Volvo you tout would be even better... I'm surely not competent to say, but the Kubota based engines do have a pretty good track record in the yachting world.

Cheers,

Jim

Hi Jim,

I'm not bashing Kubota, nor Yanmar...

All cranks have to to run in a straight line. The most stable monobloc, is goig to give the longest life.

So if we have 2 engines of the same size, the one that will last the longest by all accords, is the most stable.

Then it's true that the mono-block that runs truest, no matter the crank load will be the longest lived.

Thoroughbred, think Thoroughbred, would you bet on anything less.

Oh I get it, not unless it was insider info.

Lloyd

Target9000 · 31-03-2013, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

Thoroughbred, think Thoroughbred, would you bet on anything less.

Oh I get it, not unless it was insider info.

Lloyd

Money.

I rarely, if ever, hear of an engine death by crank shaft side loading. Almost all of the big failures are things like the rings going, water in the cylinders, or maybe so many smaller failures that it isn't cost effective to keep fixing (like constantly failing starters, heat exchanger, injector pump, etc).

The cost to replace or fix those sorts of things on a Volvo are astronomical compared to the prices of the Kubota based engines.

By the time you "take advantage" of this long lasting solidly built block, you'll have spent a King's ransom in the maintenance that comes along with it and have had the hassle to boot.

Think of it like this. The chain is only as strong as its weakest link. The weakest link isn't the crankshaft on any of these motors. So why do you focus on it? Focus on the real world reasons people replace motors.