Tohatsu 3.5Hp Starting Issues

[KayZee]

I know, I know, I know. I'm supposed to start the outboard more often but we're daysailors and life events (and weather) kept us away from the boat for about 3 months and when I went to start the outboard on the stern rail, (with a bucket of water at the intake) the !@#$% thing won't start. It's been a nightmare engine for us from the beginning when we bought it lightly used almost 2 years ago. It's been to the shop 3 times already. Once under warranty and twice at $125 a pop. If I pay another 125, I'll have almost paid for the !@#$% thing a second time.

Tohatsu 3.5. Fuel had stabilzer and the carb was run dry while flushing with fresh water the last time it was used. Fuel was fresh 4 months ago.

I'm heading down tomorrow to pull plugs check for fuel etc and I know about the ethanol gunking things up.

It's my first time pulling the cover and I ain't that mechanical but I know I need to learn. So, where to start? Is it worth it to try some starter fluid or SeaFoam and see what happens?

Pull the plug first and check for spark and or the fuel filter?

Assuming it doesn't start tomorrow it's coming home to the garage and I go down the rabbit hole. Any tips about these tohatsus in general and what my reading tells me is generally reviled and some say hard to get set-up carburetor?

Are hondas and or yamahas more better or reliable for sailors that are 70 percent daysailors and thirty percent weekenders and thusly rarely use the dinghy and its motor. How often should I start and run the outboard? Everytime I visit the boat for a wash or bilge check? Once a month?

Thanks so much for any advice,

Kurt

[Pete7]

Kurt is this the 2 or 4 stroke version?

Pete

[rbk]

First off only use premium non ethanol fuel for an engine that doesn’t see regular use (any engine IMO) No amount of stabilizer will remove the varnish that will build up in the tank. Secondly you have to expect a fully drained pull start engine to take a bit to start, you are literally trying to fill the lines, bowls and carbs a drop at a time with each pull and could take 50+ Pulls to get all the lines and bowls filled with all the air out. I suspect once you get it running again it should easier to start if done within a few hours or daily. Also spark plugs (more so on 2 strokes) are never changed nearly enough. They should be replaced annually at a minimum in small motors like yours. In bigger 2 stroke engines and racers they replace them monthly/weekly if rode hard and some after every race or event.

[sagablu]

I have a similar engine and had similar problems. The issue came down to the carburetor, one more specifically the main jet. Although it looked clear, there was a coating of varnish inside that prevented the motor from starting. It's a simple process to remove the carburetor, remove the bowl, unscrew the jet, and very gently clean the inside of the jet with carburetor cleaner and a strand of wire. Gentle!. Completely solve my problem, I hope your resolution is also that easy. I'm sure there are plenty of YouTube videos providing more detail.

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Kurt is this the 2 or 4 stroke version?

Pete

4 stroke

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by rbk

First off only use premium non ethanol fuel for an engine that doesn’t see regular use (any engine IMO) No amount of stabilizer will remove the varnish that will build up in the tank. Secondly you have to expect a fully drained pull start engine to take a bit to start, you are literally trying to fill the lines, bowls and carbs a drop at a time with each pull and could take 50+ Pulls to get all the lines and bowls filled with all the air out. I suspect once you get it running again it should easier to start if done within a few hours or daily. Also spark plugs (more so on 2 strokes) are never changed nearly enough. They should be replaced annually at a minimum in small motors like yours. In bigger 2 stroke engines and racers they replace them monthly/weekly if rode hard and some after every race or event.

"real" gas is almost unobtainable here in California. I haven't looked hard on my own but the guy at the outboard shop said there wasn't any within 50 miles. The motor normally start from dry on about 3 pulls. I usually do about 2 slow pulls, as intructed by the outboard guy before making honest pulls. That said, in this latest case, it's had close to 50 pulls in two different sessions. It doesn't smell flooded. I expect either the varnish or a stuck float. I'm hoping for a small miracle with Seafoam but I expect it's my time to learn how to clean an outboards carbutretor. Once it's going again, I'm going to try a ridgid once a month (or even more) starting schedule.


edit: I did some reading and 95 percent of all gas sold in California has 10-15 percent ethanol as mandated by our Air Resources Board. I see a list of a few "racing" shops that have it in small quantities but the closest is hours away.




I appreciate your inputs.


Kurt

[rbk]

Originally Posted by KayZee

"real" gas is almost unobtainable here in California. I haven't looked hard on my own but the guy at the outboard shop said there wasn't any within 50 miles. The motor normally start from dry on about 3 pulls. I usually do about 2 slow pulls, as intructed by the outboard guy before making honest pulls. That said, in this latest case, it's had close to 50 pulls in two different sessions. It doesn't smell flooded. I expect either the varnish or a stuck float. I'm hoping for a small miracle with Seafoam but I expect it's my time to learn how to clean an outboards carbutretor. Once it's going again, I'm going to try a ridgid once a month (or even more) starting schedule.


edit: I did some reading and 95 percent of all gas sold in California has 10-15 percent ethanol as mandated by our Air Resources Board. I see a list of a few "racing" shops that have it in small quantities but the closest is hours away.




I appreciate your inputs.


Kurt

Check your engine specs I’ve had engines where the jet is accessible through the drain plug and you didn’t have to take the carb off to clean. Just push through a piece of wire then flush it out. There also used to be a website that listed all non-ethanol stations in the states might be worth looking at (found it) https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

[Westcliffe01]

I have a similar issues with my snowblower and Suzuki DF 2.5 The main jet is clogged anytime fuel is allowed to evaporate from the bowl. It HAS to be taken apart and mechanically cleaned and all the little passages blown out with a carb cleaner.


For the OP, just go to any airfield and buy low lead aviation gasoline. It has a much better storage life and positively will not gum up your carb. If the spark plugs foul after some time, carry spares. The old outboards ran fine on leaded gasoline back in the day anyway. The only downside is that its slightly more expensive than regular and you need to buy an adequate amount so getting fuel is not a schlepp. Maybe get a 15 gal gas caddie.

[mlydon]

Did you pull the plug boot when you stored it? Also, the safety lanyard - is it properly attached? You’d be amazed how often that sucker causes problems (I’m in charge of 15 or so outboards at my local club.....)
Stopcock open?
Matt

[Lost Horizons]

Originally Posted by KayZee

"
edit: I did some reading and 95 percent of all gas sold in California has 10-15 percent ethanol as mandated by our Air Resources Board. I see a list of a few "racing" shops that have it in small quantities but the closest is hours away.

Are you in LA area? This site shows one place in Long Beach. Although, it could be hours in local traffic: https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

You don’t need 50 pulls with the internal tank. It should fill the carburetor by gravity. Give a call to a Tohatsu dealer, they may help you troubleshoot the issue. It could be something as simple as the source selector in the external tank position while no external tank is connected. (Otherwise you should have smelt gas after a while.)

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by rbk

Check your engine specs I’ve had engines where the jet is accessible through the drain plug and you didn’t have to take the carb off to clean. Just push through a piece of wire then flush it out. There also used to be a website that listed all non-ethanol stations in the states might be worth looking at (found it) https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CA

I saw that list. The only doable one of those is Van Nuys about 40 minutes each way from my house and even farther from the boat. I'll probably just see how it goes with being more diligent about putting the dingy in the water at our marina and running a few carbs worth of fresh fuel through at least once a month.


Thanks,


Kurt

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by mlydon

Did you pull the plug boot when you stored it? Also, the safety lanyard - is it properly attached? You’d be amazed how often that sucker causes problems (I’m in charge of 15 or so outboards at my local club.....)
Stopcock open?
Matt

Yep, stopcock open. Tank vent open and safety lanyard checked pulled and reinserted 3 times. I even opened the tank to eyeball the fuel.



I didn't know you were supposed to pull the plug wire. Of course, I didn't know I wasn't going to use it for 4 months. I had actually planned to head out to Catalina between T-Day and XMas but life got in the way. Why do you pull the plug wire?


Kurt

[KayZee]

Originally Posted by Lost Horizons

You don’t need 50 pulls with the internal tank. It should fill the carburetor by gravity. Give a call to a Tohatsu dealer, they may help you troubleshoot the issue. It could be something as simple as the source selector in the external tank position while no external tank is connected. (Otherwise you should have smelt gas after a while.)

There's no way a source selector could be changed because it's NEVER been attached to an external tank. I've read the manual and just reviewed it looking at how much troubleshooting info was in it, (not much) and I don't remember a source selector being mentioned. I'll be pulling the cover tomorrow. I imagine if the float is stuck, as has happened before and fixed with one of the aformentioned visits to the mechanic, no fuel would flow. When it floods, I can really smell it. In this case I expect it's starved more than flooded. It's always a new adventure with these boat things and I knew what it meant when I gave the old owner his cashiers check.


Thanks for the input,


Kurt

[sail sfbay]

I had the same engine and after continued starting problems even after servicing I replaced it with an electric Torqeedo.........no starting problems, gas can and leaks AND it is waterproof and lightweight.

[Favoured Tack]

I carry both. The Torqeedo for when I leave the harbor and my old 3.5 for if and when i run out of "gas" on the Torqeedo. Which happens if I find myself 10 km away from the dock and the wind dies!