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29-02-2020, 23:28
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,137
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Timber or steel for engine mounts
Hi all,
I’m repowering. What fun.
The old engine was a 420 kg monster, about 1.3 meters between the engine mounts fore and aft, 500 mm athwartships. The new engine is a featherweight 260 kg Beta, only 500 mm between the mounts fore and aft, but still around 500 mm across.
I have the option of bridging the span between the exisiting beds using either some lengths of angle iron, or timber beams. Both would be pretty easy to fabricate and both would be plenty strong enough. Labour feels about the same for each.
So, I wondered if there were some unobvious reasons for choosing one or the other that I should consider.
Basically, I’m trying to break a stalemate in my mind.
Matt
Edit, the title should read engine beds, not engine mounts.
__________________
Refitting… again.
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29-02-2020, 23:36
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Nice, France
Boat: Hunter Marine 38
Posts: 1,342
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
I am in no way a specialist in this area, but my personal preference would be wood because of better vibration absorbtion qualities.
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01-03-2020, 00:05
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,451
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Nay mate, neither wood or steel, alloy is the only way to go, doesn't rot or rust.
I used 75 x 10 x 30 alloy angle which I bolted the engine mounts to with countersunk bolts tapped through the angle from the bottom. The two alloy rails then sat inside the old rails and were located by pins welded into the old rails. I could remove two large retaining bolts and lift the engine out without disturbing the alignment. Drop her back in wiggle over the pins, two bolts and the drive flange and she was ready to go.
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01-03-2020, 00:15
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,137
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailormed
I am in no way a specialist in this area, but my personal preference would be wood because of better vibration absorbtion qualities.
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That’s a thought... I reckon you’d be right.
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01-03-2020, 00:21
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,137
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR
Nay mate, neither wood or steel, alloy is the only way to go, doesn't rot or rust.
I used 75 x 10 x 30 alloy angle which I bolted the engine mounts to with countersunk bolts tapped through the angle from the bottom. The two alloy rails then sat inside the old rails and were located by pins welded into the old rails. I could remove two large retaining bolts and lift the engine out without disturbing the alignment. Drop her back in wiggle over the pins, two bolts and the drive flange and she was ready to go.
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Hadn’t considered aluminium. Feels like it would be kinda springy for this job? It’s spanning a meter. It sounds like you were lining an existing bed?
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Refitting… again.
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01-03-2020, 01:16
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Back in Montt.
Boat: Westerly Sealord
Posts: 8,187
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
I am no expert..... however
I would consider laminated hardwood beams ...glassed...
Only experience in this area is using the above concept to glass in a pair of longitudinals in the focsle to stop her 'oilcanning' when going to windward... wind to port... swell to stbd .. issues..
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01-03-2020, 01:59
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: On the boat, somewhere in Australia.
Boat: Swanson 42 & Kelly Peterson 44
Posts: 9,137
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino
I am no expert..... however
I would consider laminated hardwood beams ...glassed...
Only experience in this area is using the above concept to glass in a pair of longitudinals in the focsle to stop her 'oilcanning' when going to windward... wind to port... swell to stbd .. issues..
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Well, you will sail these flimsy UK-built boats mate. What did you expect?
But, yes, I should have mentioned, I would glass in the timber if I went that path.
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01-03-2020, 02:22
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Another vote for aluminum. I used 4" x 2" C channel laid on, its side, spanning longitudinally for 48", as stringers to attach the motor mounts on a 500 Kg Volvo 200 hp.
No problems with flex, nor much vibration, though I can't say that wood might not reduce what is there a bit. Good, properly rated motor mounts are mostly the key for reducing vibration and related noise and its transmission into other parts of the boat...
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01-03-2020, 03:42
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#9
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Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,400
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Another non-expert chiming in...
Why don't you go for the best of both worlds and use something like Wandoo (or similar).
While it is timber, it is almost as strong (and hard) as steel, very unlikely to rot over several engine lifetimes, won't rust and is certainly suitable for the task. Used for railway sleepers, bridges and wharves etc. Don't drop it over the side though, it will sink, not float.
Cutting and drilling isn't easy but if you work it like a piece of aluminium rather than as a wood, it isn't so bad.
https://fremantletimber.com.au/wandoo-timber/
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All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
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01-03-2020, 08:42
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Gulf Coast of FL
Boat: Pearson
Posts: 408
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
I used aluminum and it works great, no rust, no rot.
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Ken Z
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01-03-2020, 08:59
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
My vote would be for galvanized steel. Strong, easy to work. Cheap. Should last about forever.
The concern for rusting of a steel part is misplaced. Even plain steel--properly painted--should have a really long life. We have painted and galvanized steel parts in our engine room that are 25 years old and have two circumnavigations on them that have not a trace of rust. You are bolting a really big block of cast iron to these frames (the engine!)
If your engine room is wet and/or salty enough that painted or galvanized steel rusts quickly you have bigger problems that need to be fixed before you put an expensive new engine in there.
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01-03-2020, 09:02
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Mediterranean
Boat: CT-47
Posts: 199
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
An other non expert.... that’s why I would talk to Beta... suppose they are the experts
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01-03-2020, 09:08
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 756
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Wandoo is wood from the Eucalyptus tree. When it dries it goes as hard as steel. In Spain they used to use the thin branches as scaffold poles
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01-03-2020, 09:14
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Sea of Cortez/northern Utah/ Wisconsin/ La Paz, BCS
Boat: Hans Christian 38 Mk II
Posts: 948
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Can you provide a photo of the existing beds/mount and/or a sketch of what you are trying to achieve?
I like that you are losing weight (on your boat). As we load more equipment, spares, etc our boats submerge further and further.
When I replaced my LA house bank with LFP batteries, I could see my waterline change.
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01-03-2020, 09:17
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 236
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Re: Timber or steel for engine mounts
Well, steel would be my choice. If this were my project, I’d fabricate a thrust bearing which, as the title defines, would end any and all engine alignment issues. Imagine the reduction of vibration and the increased life span of the bearing(s) on the aft end of the transmission. Gives the designer/installer flexibility to mount the engine where ease of maintenance can be enhanced, rather than at the same angle as the prop shaft. You’d only need to do it once.
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