Testing Compression

[Chief Engineer]

NM I am not talking about your markups...I am talking about 100-150% I see around here.

[Jetexas]

Yeah, the injector guy called me back & said the nozzles were $48.80 each.

Marine Diesel Direct is asking $88.44 a piece.

That markup sure seems excessive to me.

I think the W10Two was a Mitsubishi, but I forgot to get the number off the block while I was there this weekend.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

Yeah, the injector guy called me back & said the nozzles were $48.80 each.

Marine Diesel Direct is asking $88.44 a piece.

That markup sure seems excessive to me.

I think the W10Two was a Mitsubishi, but I forgot to get the number off the block while I was there this weekend.

some mark up also depends on the source. I can but the same injector from an engine manuf. or direct from Bosch. Bosch is cheaper because there are less people in the supply chain.

[Jetexas]

Picked up the injectors at lunch. Final price for the rebuild of both was $103.24! They come with a 1 year warranty, and he even put a new coat of red paint on them. lol

Here's to hoping they solve my issue ...

[Chief Engineer]

That's why I buy some injectors from my tractor place up north of me.

or from the guy that rebuilds my injectors and pumps.

The other side of the coin is many so called (Insert Brand) dealers don't even stock them anymore....they blame the economy....yeah right.

It can be a bit frustrating.

Originally Posted by never monday

some mark up also depends on the source. I can but the same injector from an engine manuf. or direct from Bosch. Bosch is cheaper because there are less people in the supply chain.

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

Picked up the injectors at lunch. Final price for the rebuild of both was $103.24! They come with a 1 year warranty, and he even put a new coat of red paint on them. lol

Here's to hoping they solve my issue ...

Good news, did you get the old nozzles back. You can make the best precision center punches out of the needles, sometimes the point is already there.

If the injection pump is working and you have some compression it should work; diesels are so nice and simple.

[Jetexas]

Well, we took the injectors down to the boat this weekend. We gave them a quick test, and they're working great.

YouTube - Westerbeke 10Two Injector Retest

IHowever, it still wouldn't start. As we sat and continued to troubleshoot, we found when the cylinders compressed, it would shoot air out of the intake.

On to the next item in the chain of repairs. Hopefully we can just clean up the valves. I started pulling the head. I got all the head bolts out, but I couldn't get it to break loose. Any advice on how to get that thing off?

[hellosailor]

"we found when the cylinders compressed, it would shoot air out of the intake." Sounds like a major valve mistiming, or possibly one of the valves is not really there any more.

If you're really SURE you have all the head bolts and anything else (manifolds?) that might span the head and bolt off of it...a gentle whap 'upside the head with a sledge ought to free it off the gasket. Just make sure to run fingers and eyes ALL the way around that head and make Real Damn Sure it is just "stuck" before you whap it.

Although, with no headbolts, if you tried to crank it, the compression alone should blow the head off.

The bright side of this, is that you're really going to know how to make that engine sing in coming years.

[sigmasailor]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"

Although, with no headbolts, if you tried to crank it, the compression alone should blow the head off.

Wow, before you try this do put in all of the fasteners loosely or you may end up with the head in your face.
If all the bolts are out a couple of smart blows with a hammer should loosen it; cranking it loose and letting the compression do the work is also a good idea. Put the injectors in but disconnect the HP lines; do put in the bolts!!

Have you tried rotating the valves (make sure they are closed) cleaning the surfaces? I do not believe it is a timing issue; after 10 years of neglect some valve seats may have become corroded.

[Jetexas]

Ben took the afternoon off work and finished retrieving the head. I had missed one bolt right behind the thermostat housing. Eh, I was working in the dark.

The valves actually seem in good shape to me, but it's probably good that we pulled the head because the water jackets are crusted shut.



After some clean-up.



Not sure what to do next. It's $940 for a head rebuild kit. Everything looks like it's in good shape though. The springs are good. The valves are good. The rods were good.

I haven't gotten to look in the cylinders and at the pistons yet, but Ben said they look pretty good.

Nothing's pitted or missing. Maybe the timing was off.

Anyway, we're out $150 for a headgasket no matter what we do. The question is, do we just finish cleaning it up and slap it back together? ($150) Do we just change the valves and springs? ($500) Do we have the head dipped, machined and do a full rebuild? ($1500)

[daddle]

If it doesn't run and the valves look reasonable you don't need a head rebuild or a new gasket. Look for some other compression problem. Maybe you're cranking it backwards...who knows? Wouldn't be the first time.

[sigmasailor]

Now that you have the head of why don't you give the valves a quick grinding in with some grinding paste (any good car shop should be able to help you there).
Something must be leaking since you saw air coming from the intake.
150 USD for a gasket? Wow.....
Why change valves and springs if they are OK? Just get them out for a quick inspection; shouldn't be too difficult to do this yourself. Remember where they came from, do not mix them up.

[forsailbyowner]

I'd at least lap the valves. When you do this you will be able to tell what condition the seat and valves are in with very little expense. A neat shiny line should appear on seat and valve. If it starts and stops its a obvious sign of deformation. I've done it with the little plungers they make for the job, I've also done it by putting a drill on the stem and lightly pulling while spinning. I used a piece of electricians tape to protect the stem and made sure the area that rides in guide is untouched. Make sure no lapping compound gets in the guide and clean the head vigorously and thoroughly to remove the abrasive lapping compound when done . Also with springs out is good time to check for slop in valve guides.

[never monday]

Originally Posted by Jetexas

Ben took the afternoon off work and finished retrieving the head. I had missed one bolt right behind the thermostat housing. Eh, I was working in the dark.

The valves actually seem in good shape to me, but it's probably good that we pulled the head because the water jackets are crusted shut.



After some clean-up.



Not sure what to do next. It's $940 for a head rebuild kit. Everything looks like it's in good shape though. The springs are good. The valves are good. The rods were good.

I haven't gotten to look in the cylinders and at the pistons yet, but Ben said they look pretty good.

Nothing's pitted or missing. Maybe the timing was off.

Anyway, we're out $150 for a headgasket no matter what we do. The question is, do we just finish cleaning it up and slap it back together? ($150) Do we just change the valves and springs? ($500) Do we have the head dipped, machined and do a full rebuild? ($1500)

where are you sourcing parts?

if your this far in pull the pistons, hone and rering

[forsailbyowner]

All things mechanical that you mentioned have measurements that can be checked. The springs should be checked for square, standing height and compression lbs.
The head should be checked for flatness of mating surface with a straightedge and feelers.
Most service manuals will give you a factory standard and a service limit range measurements. Where or if the measurements fall within the service limit range tell the story of how much useful life is left.
Measuring tools and the ability to use them are the mark of a good mechanic. Guesswork is the mark of a hack.