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Old 12-02-2020, 14:51   #61
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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The amount of water vapor in the atmosphere hasn't doubled in the last 250 years. And in fact China is now beating the U.S. I pretty much every metric of renewables production and installation. They have a long way to go, but they're working toward a solution while we have folks saying we should do nothing......because China.
Who is saying that? I've certainly never said do nothing, we have are, and have been. Our (the U.S.) total CO2 production has been relatively stable for the last 30+ years due to the progress we've made in curbing output, cleaning up our act.
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Old 12-02-2020, 16:55   #62
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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Who is saying that? I've certainly never said do nothing, we have are, and have been. Our (the U.S.) total CO2 production has been relatively stable for the last 30+ years due to the progress we've made in curbing output, cleaning up our act.
And the statistics published by communist regimes are not exactly noted for reliability.
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Old 12-02-2020, 21:50   #63
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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Turns out, Renewable Diesel is a cousin of biodiesel but quite different. It is made from the same stocks of oil and fats, but is a direct drop in replacement for fossil fuels. It is clear, odorless and has higher cetane than either fossil or biodiesel. That's right, it is a direct replacement, and is being used by whole fleets of long haul truckers and municipalities in CA and OR who report better engine performance, cleaner engines, and no issues with seals or hoses.

https://gulf32aeolus.blogspot.com/20...le-diesel.html
What is the cost per gallon and how does that compare or contrast to a gallon of traditional diesel?
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Old 12-02-2020, 22:49   #64
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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What is the cost per gallon and how does that compare or contrast to a gallon of traditional diesel?
At retail in California and Oregon it is currently ~$0.20 more/gallon than dino diesel. A couple of years ago there was a spike that had it +$1/gallon (most of 2018) but otherwise has been less than $0.40/gallon difference for the last 5 years (yes, it has been around that long, many government fleets converted to 100% use of R100 ~2015).

Note that pricing is moderately artificial, there is a $1/gallon tax credit for sellers/producers in the US. No idea how that compares with subsidies given to the fossil industry.

This is Eugene, OR’s pricing experience:

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Old 12-02-2020, 23:53   #65
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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At retail in California and Oregon it is currently ~$0.20 more/gallon than dino diesel. A couple of years ago there was a spike that had it +$1/gallon (most of 2018) but otherwise has been less than $0.40/gallon difference for the last 5 years (yes, it has been around that long, many government fleets converted to 100% use of R100 ~2015).
Interesting. That is less of a difference that I thought it would be. Is there any information on growth in it? Have you found there to be more, less, or about the same level of growth in it compared or contrasted to traditional diesel?

Have you found your fuel burn to be the same?
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Old 14-02-2020, 16:48   #66
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

Glad my post generated discussion, and interest. I'll address two questions in particular. One, the cost here in the PNW is the same or cheaper than fossil diesel. I just got some and paid about $3.60. Second, the renewable diesel has been studied extensively and found to be better for diesels when burning, and much better for storage as it doesn't attract moisture and microbes. Here is a PDF with a study done in Europe by their leading boat magazine: https://www.neste.com/sites/default/...e_by_boote.pdf
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Old 14-02-2020, 17:11   #67
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

Hello, interesting information...thanks for sharing. I also live in Olympia and believe that I’ve seen your boat.

My sailboat is kept at Swantown Marina, and so even if I bought this fuel out of state, I couldn’t use it for my boat as Swantown doesn’t allow fueling your boat at other than the fuel dock. No “jerry can” fueling allowed.

Where do you keep your boat?

Fair winds.....
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Old 14-02-2020, 19:41   #68
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

Renewable diesel emits between 15% and 50% less CO2 than regular diesel. For most engines built in the last 15 years that meet tier II or tier III, it's nearer the 15% savings so it's emitting 85% of the CO2 of regular diesel.

This is because growing and processing the "feedstock" plants uses a lot of energy, fertilizer, and transportation fuel - almost all of which are petroleum based.

At the moment, much of the renewable diesel in the US is made from palm oil and is arguably worse than regular diesel because of the forest clearing in places like Indonesia to grow more palm oil to meet the demand for renewable diesel. Forest clearing removes the much larger CO2 absorption of mature trees but worse, the clearing is usually done by burning which releases massive amounts of CO2.

That said, renewable diesel does reduce CO2 emissions a little compared to petroleum (and NOx emissions 10% too) - so it's not bad - but you would reduce your CO2 emissions much more by sailing a little more or slowing down.

Here's a good piece on renewable diesel.

https://www.gladstein.org/the-potent...duty-vehicles/
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Old 14-02-2020, 21:38   #69
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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...And if we can get rid of the ethanol mandate which is little more than a vote-buying policy that is perpetuated from administration to administration, we will be much better off. This policy is one of the worst insults to the American people. Take away the mandate and let the free market determine if ethanol is viable as a fuel.
No offence intended sb, but this is such utter crap I can't let it pass uncontested.

If we left "fuel choice" up to "the market" then we'd be running our diesel Passats on bunker fuel, or whatever else was the cheapest thing available.

Government's mandating a certain (higher) standard of quality and/or purity, and/or sulphur content, etc etc, merely provides a level playing field for all fuel consumers.

This is one of THE most fundamental flaws of laissez-faire capitalism, and most well-regarded economists accept this.

The so-called "free" market never is.

And is better for it.
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Old 15-02-2020, 16:53   #70
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

I find it very funny when a couple (2 people) sailing on a 50ft Catamaran talking about saving the world by using Bio diesel. Its a bit like having a pork belly burger and drinking Diat coke with that burger. lol
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Old 15-02-2020, 17:25   #71
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

I winter in Oregon, don't usually buy diesel there, but get it for a lot less than $3.60 at commercial fuel docks.

The idea of biodiesel is great... if it's made from a waste product. But most bio fuels are made from corn or oil seed and take up millions of acres of farm land. And are harvested and transported using fossil diesel. Railroads don't burn biodiesel, nor do tractors, harvesters or most trucks.

For a few people in sailboats biodiesel great, but not for the vast majority. In California trucks were forced into biodiesel. Many business have left. I had a business in California, I moved, too.
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Old 15-02-2020, 17:25   #72
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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Originally Posted by bwindrope View Post
Ha! The renewable diesel doesn't have the french fry smell, but virtually none at all. Because it doesn't have the impurities and sulphur and such, in a well functioning diesel it essentially puts out C02. And I agree these conversations can imply politics, but should not. It's really physics, biology and chemistry. One of the great benefits of science is that like reality, it remains true whether you believe it or not!
Science??? Or Science Theory? Perhaps you need to follow a grease trap collection truck one day and see how well the impurities in grease frying oil is removed. We quit using biodiesel when labs found high level of sugar (presumed to be from donut shops) in suspension. Seems the sugars dont carbonize in fryer at the bakery, but they reek havoc once they get injected into a high temp/high pressure diesel engines. And of course all that carbon forms right around the piston rings.
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Old 15-02-2020, 18:20   #73
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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Originally Posted by reiner View Post
I find it very funny when a couple (2 people) sailing on a 50ft Catamaran talking about saving the world by using Bio diesel. Its a bit like having a pork belly burger and drinking Diat coke with that burger. lol
Gotta remember this one for the next mono V multi thread. Extravagant, environmentally insensitive buggers having two hulls and two engines when one of each is more than adequate.
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Old 16-02-2020, 17:47   #74
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

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I find it very funny when a couple (2 people) sailing on a 50ft Catamaran talking about saving the world by using Bio diesel. Its a bit like having a pork belly burger and drinking Diat coke with that burger. lol
Are you speaking about me? Because I went back through this thread and only saw one poster with the boat you described.

If it is me to whom you are referring, please re-read my posts. Not once have I said anything about "saving the world" or even advocated the use of biodiesel or renewable diesel. All I've done in this thread is post factual content when others have posted wrong or misleading information about a subject in which I am interested.

If you're talking about someone else, well, you can ignore me and take it up with them.
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Old 18-02-2020, 11:32   #75
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Re: Switched to Renewable Diesel!

Too bad the world is afraid of nuclear power. The cleanest, safest, cheapest on record. And they can make them super small. Size of a fridge.
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